Yankee

Hi again I do agree with you that the bar was created for aesthetic purposes however the crown was never intended to be placed on this Sword knight for the other two orders ribbon rings are identical. Good observation, did not notice the lack of crossed swords. Again I think if it had orginally been made with swords we would see signs of the removal on the enamel cross since the early issue sword badges had their swords directly on the cross itself not above. I'm afraid this one might remain a mystery If there is another identical badge out there, please post Sincerely Brian

Looking at the ribbon ring, fairly certain to say the Sword that Czar Alexander l is wearing was never issued with a crown, the ring is just too clean, matches the other ribbon rings. Other possibilities, it was awarded without crown to foreigners only at that early time or perhaps it was the Russian jewelers interpretation of the order since it was recently founded ( breast badge ) & had no official print of the design. I'm sure the jeweler had other means to make the bar uniform without having to remove the crown. The Austrian 1813/14 gold army cross is absolutely beautiful Is the other medal on the far right Prussian? What a beautiful Allied Bar Sincerely Yankee

Hi Jacky The Dutch MWO that Nicholas l is wearing must be a 3rd class for the badge is made in gold and enamel however the ribbon lacks the rosette as you correctly remind me of, on an earlier bar. Perhaps it just fell apart over time and the ribbons were replaced. Sincerely Yankee

Mike ebay 170101052198 Thanks

Hi Mike Yes, I'm fairly certain. I was amazed to see a picture of a early medal bar that belonged to a Czar. In the bar was a Sword without crown, did notice the crowns between the arms were extremely wide perhaps a privately made piece. Unfortunately I do not have the picture, I saw it on ebay a three series Russian book with English translations of the orders before 1917. In Saint Petersburg I missed a special exhibit on the Imperial Orders by a few months, was able to catch the Imperial Guard uniforms etc etc at the officer barracks at the Winter Palace, many of the czars uniforms were on display but the decorations were not there ouchhhhh Ahhh timing is everything surely that bar would have been on display.

Dear members Can any member shed some light into the awards of the early Sword breast badges. I have seen a few of the early ones with crown directly fixed to the cross or straight bar across (below crown). I see that they were also issued with no crown at all. Was it a special class only given to ROYALTY. Thanks a bunch Sincerely Yankee

Hi Jacky Thanks for posting the bar, always neat to see a Dutch bar from the colonial era I think. On the far right is that the 1926 silver wedding medal? It seems this guy had a long career in the military. Any idea what class MWO would have been on this bar. I suppose there is a certain period MWO that would match this bar, must be difficult to locate, think they are rarely awarded. Sincerely Yankee

Certainly, like royal wedding medals, one of the happier occasions for a medal to be struck. Try to collect them when possible. Are there any examples of the 1901 in gold for the royal family? Every now and then you come across one, not too long ago saw a Bulgarian Ferdinand l in gold probably made for him or a member of the royal family. Sincerely Yankee

Thank You Gentlemen for your kind help Amazing how the awards increased greatly as the timeline goes to the late 20th century. Sincerely Yankee

Dear Members Does any Dutch collector know the amount of medals given out for the Inauguration 1898 Wedding medal 1901 silver Wedding medal 1901 bronze Wedding medal 1926 Any info would be most helpful, Sincerely Yankee

Hi again Another French influenced ribbon Sincerely Brian

Hi Wild Card That is great, three different configurations of the officer cross on one thread . I am fairly certain the one you have without swords is gold. Mine without swords has flat arms just like yours with swords, probably same time period. I think yours with swords is silver gilt, if I'm wrong please correct me, not totally certain from the scan on that one. For certain mine is silver gilt except for the center which is gold Thanks Yankee.

Hi Wild Card What a great surprise , this is now the 2nd Schaumburg Lippe piece I have never seen before this just gets better & better. I noticed the hilts are very sturdy & beautifully detailed. Only other time I've seen seen hilts so bold & solid is on the Wendish Crown Have you any idea of a time line for your piece, can't tell if gold or silver gilt. With so fewer issued in swords do you know who the orginal holder is? Thanks for the picture Sincerely Yankee

Hi Solomon Never seen one of those before , very attractive. Did all the German States have an "Arts & Science Medal"? Thanks Yankee

Hi Christophe Thank you for setting the record straight there is some false information out there. Many people shy away from the Max Joseph when there is no number to be found in the ribbon ring, thus suspect. Not to long ago I saw one offered by auction with old rosette on frayed ribbon ummarked possibly Napoleonic & seemed of excellent quality like the one pictured. I guess it would be safe to say that all the German States Allied to Napoleon were manufactured in France as well & it would be a bit difficult to tell them apart quality wise. Sincerely Yankee

Ahhhh those Max Joseph's are already priced to the moon. Even without the number they should be desirable as I recollect they were given to foreigners that way, many were for the Napoleonic campaigns, it is odd why the Bavarians did not number them on the ring as well. If I'm wrong down this line, somebody please correct me. Sincerely Yankee

Hi Rick Research Absolutely amazing that both states would award the same person, good info to know so when I come across a picture or medal bar, I will not think my eyes are playing tricks. When I was thinking of 1916, it was the officer cross with swords that came to my mind, so I just assume 1916 was also the same time period without swords. As I understand there was a law passed for economic reasons to produce the pieces in silver gilt. I see from your figures not so many awarded without swords during the war. This order is being copied extensively, no class seems to be spared. Particularly concerning are the early post WWl examples where the quality is good . It has always been my assumption if there was any markings then you have no worries but that is not the case. Even an old tag does not prove the authenticity of my example, can only go on a gut feeling since I've not handled enough. I thank you for your amazing ability, hope to have chance to repay your kindness All the best. Yankee

Hi Rick Research Just saw your post after my reply to chip. Very fascinating info you put out. Then that would make the silver gilt pieces awarded before WWl too. I thought there was a law or ruling all pieces in silver gilt were issued in 1916 or after in regards to the Lippe Prinipalities. Just for argument sake, would you know how many were issued between 1916-18? That is if the file numbers are not from 1907 circa but later. Thanks a bunch for your in depth research.

Glade the Schaumburg Lippe thread is welcomed, certainly a Principality with a long history & beautiful Buckeburg Castle ancestral home of the Prince's

Hi Chip Thanks for that, noticed a bunch of numbers on front side of tag, perhaps number of awards for the order or maybe an auction catalog lot #

Nicely mounted with matching ribbon bar , noticed that many of the German States have their own style of court mounting most prevalent on single pieces. I suppose that is for another topic.

Hello Gentlemen Did not see a dedicated thead to Schaumburg Lippe, perhaps one can start. If anybody has orders & medals to the sister state please post & show. Pictured is an officer cross in silver gilt which would make it a WWl example. Crown is mobile not fixed. There is an old tag possibly from a catalog unfortunately written possibly in old German, maybe a member can help translate. Would there be a list of recipients who would have received this class of order still in existence. Thanks Sincerely Yankee

Your bar certainly belonged to a man of some importance, received the small Nicolas ll medal for zeal in gold Thanks for showing. Sincerely Yankee