Yankee

The black enamel trim that border sections of the circle and the beginning of the four arms of the cross is not even at all.

Hi Nick The 4th class is being offered at Galerie Auction. Appreciate if you have any thoughts on it. After viewing post 58 I'm not sure about anything.

That would be collusion. :violent: That could explain why the fakes are so bloody good............

This is all very disturbing that a few bad actors that are well positioned in the community would allow such pieces go through their hands and not say anything. Perhaps it could be conceivable that the fakes are so high grade that even they are missing it. After giving it a bit of thought there really are no options to stop the forgers unless the market crashes, gold goes to 10,000 an ounce. Until some serious measures are taken we should only expect continuation of quality fakes to flood the market as long as the prices support it and the demand is there. Glade my books are safe from this plague................ dollars an ounce or harsh prison time.

The silver-gilt ones I avoid like the plague. I think the silver-gilt examples are duplicates for the owner & the vast majority are post war copies for the collectors market. All the official ones should be in gold even the ones handed out in WWl. What baffles me are the unmarked gold ones. Perhaps in your job you come into contact with a good many over the years and it would be easy to sort them out or not necessarily the case.

And he's not even Russian Maybe same crew are doing the A-H awards. Marked & unmarked Saint Stephens are croping up too. This order is much to scarce to see so many in such a short amount of time.

This reminds me of the James Bond movie with Roger Moore who switched the Faberge egg @ auction. Unlike the movie we never do learn who is behind this deception.

What triped me is the two different colors of gold being used. They were big using pink/rose color gold and yellow to contrast, which is what this artist did. He did his homework . The 18th century style Saint Anne cross with the 19th century center is odd to say the least but the museum copy is brilliant .

Nick are you 100% certain this is a bad apple. That dark red enamel is absolutely superb, same workmanship- construction wise as a museum piece. Your right I do love it

Even Thies can't tell & he is knowledgeable well with the German States to be certain.

In regards to the life saving medal ( post 108 top right )Thies has two in his upcoming auction in September.

I remember way back another collector telling me that the forgers were taking perfectly good gold Oak Crown breast badges and turning them into Saint George's. At first I thought he was joking, than realized he was dead serious having not seen gold Oak Crowns of late. They use to be cheap and plentiful. To destroy a perfectly good order is disgusting if only there was a way to stop this practice.

OK so much for my theory There must be a whole artist colony hard at work as we write. Hate to think what I might have..

Any idea if they are solid silver ? & if so could be cast copies.

Are you telling me they are all fake? The upper right does look questionable but the others look smashing.

If he was not asking the moon, it would have been long out of his hands. Let us hope he continues to use ebay I think this cross is a one of a kind ( painted center ) and not mass produced which is unfortunate.

The auction firms don't want to be a dumping ground if they can help it so ebay is the default button. I just hope ebay has a easy return policy for the buyer but I'm not so sure if he or she would ever discover - not even weights and measurements could apply to this high end quality piece.

Hi Nick Post 34 is awesome in seeing examples of swords above the cross ( example 14 & 15 ) viewing genuine badges is a real privilege. The Russians must have copied this award system from the German States that had this practice in place. Basically they were allowed to add swords above if they were a holder of a lower grade with swords ( through cross ). I assume this is the reason for the Russians doing it. I have never come across a Russian badge with swords above which makes me believe they were awarded for a very short period of time. Thank you for those clear fotos and the detailed rules on the wearing of the ribbon with bow. Sincerely Brian

Post three it was. Had no idea that only civilaians received the 35 year inscription. I recall the early ones for military should have a bow on the ribbon since the swords did not exist before the Crimea War. What is interesting even with the swords, one does come across the bow attached to the ribbon. Sincerely Brian

Hi Nick Many kind thanks for explaining that. Rarely as one does come across the inscription Vladimirs it is no shock to see turn of the century examples displaying three letters across the arm. Now I know only mid 19th century examples that are properly marked and bare that old cyrillic letter should be good . This info that you provided is great for the collecting community, just hope the forgers don't view this thread. Sincerely Brian

Hi Nick That is an awesome Russo-Turkish WAR bar with the Danube Crossing and of course the others too. I'd like to ask a question about this bar in regards to the St.Vladimir that for sure has the 25 or 35 year service inscription on the arms. The first to have seen one on any bar . As I was told prior to the Russian Revolution the year was spelled out in 4 letters and after 1917 the year was written in 3 letters. I have seen several examples over the years being spelled in both ways. Safe to say that good examples should only be 4 letters and three letter examples should be suspect. Perhaps the forgers now know this and corrected their mistake and are making the year of service with a 4 letter inscription. Thanks Sincerely Brian

oppps Kremlin........

Feel fairly sure it is after using 10X loop. See your diagnosis was spot on . You have got to be a curator for the Kremin

Why didn't I not think of that Thanks Nick for all your kind help