Farkas

I was surprised that ‘Gebruder’ was such a frequently found name amongst medal makers…

you live and learn 😊

48 minutes ago, kjfswkr said:

Thanks, will try to post.

 

Kevin

👍👍

5 minutes ago, danijla said:

Hey Tony!

 

Yes, in some capacity the Morflot would have helped the Navy, however as far as I’m aware this was a relatively rare occurrence. 
 

£8 is good for this sort of cap with such embroidery. I only ever see them locally for about £20 and higher.

 

Congrats on the new piece!

 

Dan

Thanks Dan,

I didn’t know what it was but it looked great! I think the fact they wrongly listed it as a Japanese navy cap meant it slipped under the radar of its true market… luckily for me!

cheers

tony

2 hours ago, danijla said:

Hi Tony.

 

this is a cap for the Soviet merchant marine fleet, specifically middle command staff used between 1980-1991.

 

It is NOT a Soviet navy piece, but a civilian organisation piece.

 

Dan

Thanks Danijla,

always good to know what’s what…

In the UK we have a Royal Fleet Auxillary that supports the RN.

Would the Soviet merchant marine fleet have supported the Soviet navy in any regular capacity?

The cap only cost £8 & made no mention of the name or B448 written on it, it wasn’t used to boost the price. So could that still be relevant in your opinion?

Thanks for your help 👍

tony 🍻

19 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Too much work...I´m a lazy old man...😄

😊😊

I bet you there is a return guarantee to exploit…😉

22 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

Yes, i' ve seen the copies. But these are reprints. I'd like to have an original one, but they are pretty expensive...

Is that AbeBooks one the real deal? at 130 its worth it if your picture is in it but if it isn’t... 🥺

1 hour ago, Graf said:

 

 

Nice work

Worth exploring further If we can trace more items we might get more information

 

Cheers

Good suggestion, I found this excellent page about the Wellner family business history, there was a business partner called  Gaedt and a brother called Gustav, ‘Chief smelter’, so a few more G possibilities 👍

https://www.ascasonline.org/articoloMARZ155.html

tony🍻

On 05/08/2023 at 22:28, Graf said:

Well done Tony

Cheers Graf 🍻

The other day me and my Mum actually saw a copper wearing his helmet and he had no hi-vis on either.

He looked great, a fine figure of a man.

6 hours ago, Megan said:

I feel quite sorry for police officers these days. The uniform they are expected to wear looks more suited for a trip to the gym (especially the tops!) than going on the beat. Neither West Midland or Cheshire police seem to go in for helmets, either. It's all caps or the silly hats they give female officers.

 

It quite put me off when I was of an age to consider joining that women didn't wear helmets, I quite fancied them! But after they lost my application 3 times I gave up... it just was not meant to be.

As you say they’re a sorry looking bunch nowadays...

tony 🍻

Seems appropriate then to buy it for yourself... i hear you’ve been a good boy this year.   Just promise to ‘pay yourself back’ a pound a day til your birthday & sorted.

Seriously, It actually seems to be a scarce book, it would go nicely with that lovely piece you have.

But otherwise there’s this 👇

It’s cheaper but in Australia

& in the description it says ‘facsimile edition’... from 1987?

You really should get one of them 

tony 🍻

PS

Georg Michael Kirn

1810 - 1882

6 hours ago, graham said:

I have a GW 18 on an A-H wound medal:

 

Yes, that’s exactly the mark Graham...

5 hours ago, Graf said:

Hi Tony,

 

I looked in my files.Yes, it looks a mystery mark

The only thing that I can suggest that this could be a cities  of Graz -G and Vienna (Wien) -W marrks

But why two cities? Mystery. I hope someone with more deep knowledge in to the Austrian Makers Marks can come with some hint

 

 

Other option is if GW stand for name/s G could be for Gebruder and W for the family name if the company was run by at least two Brothers  Mystery

 

Cheers

Thanks for looking Graf, I couldn’t find a name for it, the few examples i found were ‘unidentified’ and i wanted to make sure those sources were upto date, so thanks 👍👍

So Gents,

i think i may have cracked it 🤞

But what do think of this suggestion?👇

Gottlieb Wellner

A German silversmiths which operated until 1946 from, some sources say, 1850. (but certainly existed by 1900)

The usual mark attributed to them is

GOWE  

At times a different GW mark (also seen above) was used 👇 by them.

I don’t believe that 2 different coexisting firms would ever use the same letters for their marks.

So.,. I dont think attributing these medals and this GW mark to Gottlieb Wellner is too much of a stretch, especially as no other matches for the initials GW are apparent.

What do you think?
 

All thoughts and opinions welcomed as always 👍

cheers

tony 🍻

10 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Hi Tony!

Great work! Thanks a lot! That must be him!

I´d like to know, if the painting is in that book...

When’s your birthday?   😊

Hi Gents,

i’ve got a couple of Karl Truppen Kreuz with a GW makers mark and as far as i know the maker is unidentified.

Has anyone got a GW mark or maybe even know who it is?

cheers

tony

1 minute ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Great job! Thank you very much for your help. You are a true detective 😄

My pleasure K.A. 😊

tony 🍻

PS, one last thought…

the French for phoenix is ‘phoenix’

& for order it is ‘ordre’

On 03/08/2023 at 07:37, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

The awards were written by clerks, presumably from some other sources

I’d say whoever wrote that translation was ‘thinking’ in Greek not French & (likely) The recorded translation was provided during the 1927 visit, by a Greek who knew French.

((During the early 20th century French was the only compulsory language in Greek schools.))

(That’s all now I promise 😁)
t 🍻

On 03/08/2023 at 07:37, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

The source is very much official and not written by Groos himself. The document can be found in his Personalakte in the Bundesarchiv. The awards were written by clerks, presumably from some other sources. Here is the full document:

Very much official…
That was unexpected!

👉 A German record, in French, for a non existent Greek ‘Commander superior of the palm battalion’… I said several times I felt the entry must have been informal/flippant.  But clearly not.

I enjoyed looking for clues about this the other night. I (of course) enjoyed finding the Phoenix link.
So I thought I’d have another go armed with this different new viewpoint.

If “battaillon de palmier” is used in the officially recorded title, there must be a explanation other than as ‘a joke’?
I had already looked but I looked again…

On 02/08/2023 at 21:37, Farkas said:

There aren’t many to chose from in the first place and certainly nothing using battalion. I did wonder if legion might have translated as battalion but there is no Order of the ‘legion of palms’ either.

& found it.

👉 “Modern Greek military ranks are based on Ancient Greek and Byzantine terminology.

In the army and Air Force, these names are often based on the unit or post that a holder of each rank usual commands. For example, a tagmatarchis is in charge of a tagma, which is derived from an Ancient Greek word translatable as "command", "order", or "class", and in modern Greek is a unit equivalent to a battalion in other armies; “

So, by my reckoning, we’ve got

On 02/08/2023 at 11:51, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

And I suppose the class written ("Superior Commander") would be the Grand Commander Class

Superior Commander 

= Grand Commander

Bataillon

= Order

Palmier

= Phoenix

Thats 3 for 3 now matched 👍👍

tony 🍻

Hi Gents,

I’ve picked this up along the way.
It’s a commemorative piece, a paperweight I would guess, presented by the Uruguay Naval Academy/school.

It a nice chunky thing, 20 mm thick.

With the face measuring 12cm x 8cm.

A heavy stone, marble I think, with a cloth backing.

The inscription roughly translates as…

‘To/For British Naval Attaché 

Captain Gerard D Van Someren

To remember your visit.’

   XII 1969

I so like random things like this.

I like this because it’s a personal item, regardless of its origin or significance.

To think, it’s survived for 50+ years, then it’s unwanted… but a sentimental little hoarder like me comes along, pays £5 and now it’s safe again, it’s in the sun again (on my window sill) and both it and the name of

Captain Gerard D Van Someren

are recorded ‘forever’ here on the GMIC.

Whats not to like about that 🍻

On 20/07/2023 at 07:34, Graf said:

The details are much sharper than on mine, I’m glad I had Elmars evaluation before I saw it… 😊

On 19/07/2023 at 09:04, Elmar Lang said:

It's an original, officer's type badge of the Regia Aeronautica to be used on the overseas cap; in this case, made by Messrs. Binda, Milan, a then known maker of metal badges, buttons etc.

A reminder of the differences amongst the ‘same’ piece and the need for friends to help assess such things. 👍

tony 🍻

On 02/05/2020 at 16:43, The Prussian said:

No ideas? ☹️

Well…

I thought it is P M 

and surname starting Kir with one or maybe two more letters

P.M. Kir… does not exist.

The first letter looks like a P should

but it also looks like a G could

so I’m gonna stick my neck out and say…

G.M. Kirn

he does/did exist

tony 🍻

zzz

Hi Gents

a couple of things I have.

This first one is a hanger for pictures…

and a smaller piece , a pin badge that looks similar to some shown earlier..,

tony 🍻

On 17/04/2021 at 22:42, TacHel said:

The 3 grades.  Are they really for 15, 25 and 40 years?  If yes, what's the "spange" at the top for?

 

Just checked and turns out they are actually awarded at 10, 20 & 30 years.

The honour clasp was then awarded to women to mark 35 years and awarded to men at 40 years.

tony 🍻

On 17/12/2021 at 14:41, Gordon Craig said:

Gentlemen,

 

There are a number of different type of metal ribbon bars that were used in the DDR.  I'm going to start with what a correct senior officer/Generals bar should look like.  This bar would be worn on a tunic.  One of  the signs of a reproduction or fake bar is often how much solder is used on the back of the bar.  This bar shows the minimum use of solder.  Most of the bar does not need to be soldered to hold it together.

 

Regards,

 

Gordon

A well made & good looking bar..,

is it common practice to have the single plastic pieces covering each bar or is it just a personal thing?
Either way it has certainly kept these ribbons in top shape.

tony 🍻

Hi Cazack,

I’m tempted to say

‘Eastern Command’

or

as I believe was sometimes the case,

perhaps it identifies where he is from.

I didn’t find another example or mention.

tony 🍻

Ps what does the AS stand for?

On 14/06/2023 at 00:28, dante said:

George Titmuss (AKA Titmus)
Depot named Crimea war medal clasp Sebastopol and named “La Crimee” Turkish war medal.
George was born in 1832 • Pirton, Hertfordshire, England. He was baptized on March 25, 1832 in St Mary the Virgin Pirton.
His father died in 1844, he left school and worked as a straw plaiter and labourer employed at Wellbury Farm, Offley by a farmer Thomas Smoothy and in 1853 he was caught stealing and received 6 months in prison on release he enlisted into the Royal Regiment of Artillery.
In 1854 he deployed to the Crimea  to take part in the siege of Sebastopol with Number 7 Company 6th Battalion Royal Artillery under Captain John Boothby (Later Major General & First class cricketer), George served 6 months in the Crimea was wounded/injured following an explosion of a Magazine in the trenches surrounding Sebastopol (most likely at French Park on the 15th November 1855), he remained in the army and married in 1862 to Harriet Carew PETERS at the citadel barracks Plymouth, went on to serve on Alderney in the Channel Islands then five years in Gibraltar and one year in Agra India (most likely with 7 Battery 22 Brigade RFA).
I was here his wife Harriet and youngest baby Alice died and were buried in 1871.
Having served 17 years, he was pensioned due to disability aged 40 as a danger to himself and others undertaking gun drill due to age and injuries in the Crimea.
He appears to have gone of the rails on leaving the army, fighting, larceny, common assault, resulting in periods of prison and hard labour 
He remarried in 1874 to Eliza HARMER and they lived at St. Ippollitts, Hertfordshire, England.
In 1901 aged 70 he is noted as an Army pensioner living in Ardeley, Eliza his wife died in 1911 and George died in 1912 aged 80.
He received a military funeral which was held at Hitchen and noted in the local paper as a veteran of the Crimean war.
Note…George was an undoubted rogue who lived a long and hard life, his medals have for over 150 years stayed together and certainly worn by George most likely on his coat long into his retirement and I dare say down the pub to regal the locals and to get his beer bought for him.

A proper character behind these, the story of a tough old fella, congrats 👍👍

tony 🍻

On 14/06/2023 at 00:17, dante said:

Rare confirmed heavy brigade charger Crimea medal group, to 944 Sergeant John Kidney 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons, wounded in the charge, 25th October 1854.John Kidney was born in 1827 and prior to joining the British Army he had been a farmer from, Magracross, Drumcolhan, Co.Fermanagh, Ireland.
He enlisted into the 6th Dragoons on 29th August 1846 aged 19 and served with the 6th throughout the Crimean War. On March 1858 he is seen re-enlisting as No.65 L/Cpl JOHN KIDNEY, 5th Lancers with whom he served until he was discharge at his own request aged 43 on 20th January 1870. He had served in the two units for a total of 25 years & 324 days. (Final discharge papers, Canterbury, 9th to the 23rd July 1872)In 1869 he was 'busted' down to Private for an unknown misdemenor. His previous conduct was shown as "Very Good" and he was in possession of 5 good conduct stripes. However,he appears in the regimental defaulters book on two occasions and is shown as being twice court marshalled. (Hence no L.S.G.C. medal)

Very nice indeed!

tony 🍻