Farkas

No Bill, no need to apologise at all 😊😊

 

tony 🍻

Hi Gordon,

do you mind if I share your pics on twitter? I can most likely get a translation from someone on there.

 

tony 🍻

13 hours ago, FOR VALOUR said:

Hello,

        Are records available for the victorian volunteer long service medal please appreciate any advice ?

Regards 

looks like there is 👍

 

https://www.omrs.org/news/omrs/uk-volunteer-long-service-medal-roll-now-available

Nice 👍

Interesting to see unusual ones…

 

What are those end ones Greg?

tony 🍻

On 28/03/2024 at 21:02, kolbaro said:

Hi Gents,

 

Can you please help me with the identification of this maker? 

 

 

 

Thanks,

Tom

 

 

Hello Gents, Tom,

I’m gonna throw this out and see what I get back…. 🤷‍♂️
 

I’m currently thinking 

WB is ‘Weiss, Budapest”

From Wikipedia :
‘The Weiss Manfréd Acél- és Fémművek("Manfréd Weiss Steel and Metal Works"), or colloquially Csepel Művek ("Csepel Works") was one of the largest machine factories in Hungary, located on Csepelisland in the southern part of Budapest, founded in 1892. It was the second largest industrial enterprise in the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, and the biggest industrial enterprise in the Hungarian half of the Empire. It played an integral role in the heavy industry and military production of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. Founded by Baron Manfréd Weiss of Csepel, an industrialist of Jewish origin, by the time of World War I the company was one of largest defense contractors in Austria-Hungary,[1] producing all types of equipment, from airplanes and munitions to automotive engines, bicycles Csepel bicycle and cars. ‘

Not got much else to support it, apart from it fits and I’ve not found anything else that does. & I have tried! 

 

All thoughts welcome as always 👍

Need some Zzz’s.

 

cheers 

tony 🍻

On 31/03/2024 at 20:46, WJT said:

Has anyone heard of AH submarine badges classed by Type 1, 2 and 3.

I have been collecting many for the last 50 years. I am no expert but I try to learn something every day. Please educate me.

thanks

 

Hi WJT,

I often found you when I was looking for the answer to this 🍻 I’m tempted to say if you haven’t found examples then they probably don’t exist, however I’ll add my thoughts if I may 😊

 

There is I believe a consensus that officers/commanders(?) did not receive these.

So I wonder if there would have been a disinterest, a reluctance or even opposition to their subordinates being recognised with a trio of awards including prestigious silver and gold classes.

I have no knowledge of the number of submariners that would even have made, for example the 10,  25 or 50 trips required should classes have been introduced.  
Was it a short life expectancy career? And/Or did subs have a low level of involvement in action?

I’m certain you know more than I about that than most 😊

 

More questions than answers I know.

 

I did find one photo online that I thought was interesting…

 

He has a pre war mobilisation cross and then during the war he earned bronze, small silver and large silver bravery medals.., and yet still only has one uboat badge.

Is it safe to assume that he served long enough to receive a second class should one have existed 🤷‍♂️
 

cheers

tony 🍻

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Gents,

I wasn’t sure whether to post this over in the ‘real’ or here in the ‘fakes’…

 

I spotted this earlier, the dealer has a good reputation and I don’t want to cast aspersions but for such a scarcely issued award and I presume therefore prestigious award… the quality of workmanship looks terrible to me.

 

Prussian Order of Louise

1813-14 Issue,

Gold & Enamel

First Class Medal

 

 

 

 

I’ve marked a few things on this 👇.  Seems to me iit has obvious tool marks but it is the inconsistent width and edges that made me doubt it initially.. 

 

If it’s in fact a genuine piece then no wonder the maker didn’t want to put his mark on it.

 

Any thoughts Gents?

 

tony 🍻

On 23/03/2024 at 11:14, BalkanCollector said:

 

Is there any way you can get more detailed photos of this decree? Especially the part I marked because it may hide some information. It's impossible to read it with this resolution.

 

Hi BalkanCollector,

I’ve just checked, DLE hasn’t been back on since your reply, hopefully will soon though - fingers crossed,

I’ll give you a nudge if/when..,,

tony 🍻

 

2 hours ago, No one said:

Dear Gentlemen,

 

New bug? My pictures, posted Friday at 14:07, are gone! Where? Why? How?

 

- "Order of the Sacred Treasure" 7th class with the "ナ / na" hallmark:

 

 

 

 

 

- "Order of the Sacred Treasure" 8th class with the "ナ / na" hallmark:

 

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

Dear No one,

that was me I believe 🤷‍♂️

Earlier It somehow added your pics to my post when I did my edit, I certainly hadn’t, so I removed them from my image list…

I haven’t got a clue how it could affect yours, I didn’t see it had at the time, but seems now it did. 

 

tony 

 

Hi Gents,

I’ve dug out my little collection at last..,

 

Sadly not as many as I once had, other ones I had in wooden boxes were an easy way to raise funds when in a hurry..,

 

I’ve had mixed results looking for stamps/marks, maybe you can see more than I do 😊

Either way I’m going to add pictures of them all as they are each nice things.

 

Putting them in 3 groups..,

2 boxed orders

Nothing added

4 medals from 1910’s

Unsure if tool marks or worn marks 

3 Red Cross medals

2 have clear marks, 1 unsure 

 

Order of the Rising Sun

7th and 8th classes

 

 

 

1914-15 War medal.

 

 

 

1914-20 War medal

 

 

1915 Enthronement Medal.

 

Together.

 

ww1 Allied Victory Medal.

 

Red Cross Medal.

 

 

 

Life Member Medal.

 

Medal.

 

 

 

Together.

 

Tony 🍻

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 28/03/2024 at 21:02, kolbaro said:

Hi Gents,

 

Can you please help me with the identification of this maker? 

 

 

 

Thanks,

Tom

 

I Want It!!  
 

Hi Tom,

thanks for showing us your example 🍻

 

As you probably realise that one is not on our list… yet 😊

So I now know what I’ll be looking for tonight… fingers crossed I’ll get an id for it, I’ll keep you posted.

 

cheers

tony 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇬🇧

On 25/03/2024 at 05:20, No one said:

Order of the British Empire (Civil) / 1914-15 Star / British War Med. / 1914-1918 Mercantile Marine Med. / Victory Med. / Defence Med.:

Some snippets from Wikipedia:

All recipients of the Mercantile Marine War Medal also received the British War Medal. Service solely in the Mercantile Marine did not earn them the award of the Victory Medal or either of the two Stars.

However. Members of the Royal Navy seconded to the Mercantile Marine to man defensive weapons on merchant ships could qualify for the Mercantile Marine War Medal in addition to other campaign medals. 

Also. Men who transferred in or out of the Mercantile Marine from, or to, the fighting services could also qualify for the award of the Victory Medal and, if appropriate, the 1914 Star or 1914–15 Star, while still being eligible for the Mercantile Marine War Medal.
Service solely in the Mercantile Marine sadly did not count for the award of the Victory Medal or either of the two Stars.

 

It would seem to me that your ribbons were worn by a merchant seaman after the war. The arrangement of ribbons was not regulated, or regs were ignored, for them and though I’ve seen this in pics, I’ve never had one myself.  

Though it could be an army man that also served in the MM and again went to sea after the war, it’s most likely a Royal Navy man that earned these for service as described above.

👉 it’s a cool thing, yours with the OBE particularly so. 😊

 

tony 🍻

 

ps that ‘South Africa’ bar is missing another row I think , or at least one ribbon, it definitely should have the ww1 Victory medal, it was always awarded with the other two.  👍 

On 23/03/2024 at 11:14, BalkanCollector said:

 

Is there any way you can get more detailed photos of this decree? Especially the part I marked because it may hide some information. It's impossible to read it with this resolution.

 

Thanks for the interest, don’t go anywhere, I’ll be back asap !!   🍻

Playing up 🫤

 

Threads playing up, I hope i don’t have to write that again 🤞

6 hours ago, gjw said:

 

Hey Tony, good to hear from you, hope all is well.

 

So you think this bar is to a Vet who served in the First World War?  

 

Many thanks as always!

 

Greg

Hi Greg,

always good to catch up with you, all is well my end, hope you are well too.

 

To be honest I was thinking a ww2 veteran as it is without any of the 1930’s issued ww1 commemorative medals

 

 

So it would be a ww2 vet…

but I could be wrong

(it’s not uncommon 🥴)

 

Also I realised I overlooked #7, the last but one medal, the silver one, the reverse of which is shining away in picture 2.

 

That is a 40 year service/membership  medal from Tirol, Austria… so there should be a 25 year medal like this before it.

 

 

 

The first is an award from :

The Austrian Black Cross (Österreichisches Schwarzes Kreuz)

& that could be as old as 1919 but I believe here it’s the wrong ribbon… it should be a

red - white - red ribbon for that.

 

And I’ve no idea about number 2 still.

 

So, after thinking ww2 vet, then ww1 ve when I saw the 40yr award, then even considering a 1848(!) & 1866 vet because of these 👇 (and wishful thinking).

Sadly couldn’t justify 1848/66 so I came back to our first impression , a ww2 veteran and it fits…

The current medal 1 doesn’t belong,

the first one should be this 👇

Also, To accommodate the missing 25 yr medal, there has to be another one that doesn’t belong… so I’m binning number 2. 🤷‍♂️
 

————-

its 5.41am and it’s time for a snooze but…

 

I reckon the bar should be…

Number 1 - needs a 1939 to 45 cross

Number 2 - medal 6 belongs here

Numbers 3,4 & 5 - correctly hung.

Number 6 - needs a 25yr medal here.

Numbers 7 & 8 - are correctly hung.

 

I don’t know why 8 goes on the end but I’ve seen it there after (after a 25&40 also) on two other bars tonight, is it possibly because it’s ‘East Tyrol’ not just ‘Tyrol’, is East Tyrol still Austrian or is there some bad history 🤷‍♂️ Anyway, whatever the reason that’s where it seems to get placed.

 

Cheers

tony 🤷‍♂️

Hi Tracy,

just a thought re photos.

I had a problem showing makers marks in pictures, I would zoom in on the details on the picture itself afterwards. 
It then occurred to zoom in on the marks first, then take the photo…you may already do this but I had never thought to. 
 

It was a game changer for details.

 

tony 🍻

 

PS I’ve got one of these, I’m been meaning to for ages but now definitely I’m digging mine out tonight… 👍

 

Hi Greg,

the translation for the motto

‘Fur Besondere Berdienste’ (spelling?)

comes back as…

‘for special service’.

 

 I’m pretty sure I’ve still got a little group of medals/awards by the same veterans organisation that includes ones with years of membership…

5, 10 & 15yrs numbered on them.

They are from the  interwar period i believe.

 

The lack of even a 5 year membership medal (unless in fact one is…) makes me think this person maybe received all these in a relatively short period of time.

 

I’m assuming the association would have helped to provide support & social services to veterans especially after the war so perhaps this person was ‘exceptionally’ involved in the organisation for a time post ww2.

 

Last thought, the crest/shields look to be different on a couple of the medals, perhaps different branches? If so maybe recognition not just from one local area?

 

Nice looking group especially on the bar with the cross fronting them.

 

cheers

tony 🍻

 

On 21/03/2024 at 05:47, Christian1962 said:

Hi Tony!

 

You are right, Strudlhofgasse 14/11 and 14/14 should be in the same building.

 

Adresses in Vienna can be specified differently:

 

1. In smaller buildings (with just few apartements per floor) they are often displayed like this: Strudlhofgasse 14/1 (=first floor), 14/2 (= second floor), ...

 

2. in bigger buildings (with more apartements per floor) they will be displayed like this: Strudlhofgasse 14/1/1 (=first floor, apartement no. 1), Strudlhofgasse 14/2/1 (=second floor, apartement no. 1), ...

 

3. In real large buildings (with more than one staircases) you can find 4 digits: Strudlhofgasse 14/1/1/1 (=staircase 1, first floor, apartement no. 1), Strudlhofgasse 14/2/3/2 (=staircase 2, third floor, apartement no. 2)....

 

4. Strudlhofgasse 14/11 and 14/14 f.e. would give a hint to a smaller building with few apartements which were simply numbered. We can assume it was no skyscraper at all with 14 or more floors.

 

This should help postmen and visitors to find their clients.

 

As always Vieanna is different. In many elder buildings exists a "Souterrain" (a floor between basement and ground floor), then a "Mezzanin" (I could find "mezzanine" in google translate) between groundfloor ("Erdgeschoss") and first floor ("1. Stock"). Buildings can consist of:

Souterrain

Erdgeschoss

Mezzanin

Erster Stock

Zweiter Stock

.....

 

Regards

 

Christian

Hi Christian,

 once again I must thank you so much for your help. I must admit this one was a personal matter I needed help with.,.

My Grandfather Georg Farkas

 

 

He escaped Vienna in late 1938 with his wife and children including my Father.

As you can see their address then was 

Strudlhofgasse 14/14.

 

Neither Georg nor my Father ever knew the fate of older family left behind.

 

Just a couple of years ago I found records showing both Georg’s parents had been deported to Lodz ghetto, Poland in 1941.

Georg’s Father Ignaz was killed there, his Step-Mother Edith was moved on from there in 1942.  Her records showing a classification -AUSG.

 

 

That had been the limit of my knowledge until a few nights ago. Unfortunately, first, any slim hope that Edith had survived the war ended with the explanation of the AUSG notation on the Lodz records.

AUSG means Edith was ‘deported’ to Chelmno death camp so no chance she survived.  At the time they were still using ‘Gas trucks’ to murder prisoners.

 

But I also found this file for Ignaz.

As you can see their Vienna address prior to deportation was -

Strudlhofgasse 14/11

 

 

I was unsure if there was a mixup or not, unsure if the addresses were one and the same, correct or not.

 

So, that was the reason for my question, and Christian, the reason I truly appreciate your detailed and helpful answer.

 

Another long lost piece of the Family ‘jigsaw’ is now in place… 

 

cheers

tony 🍻

 

 

 

14 hours ago, IanB said:

We don't seem to have had any family links to the US.

 

Hi Ian,

well it seems you might have to find that link 🥴

 

 

Quick timeline…

- East India company established 1600.

- Honourable East India company Marine established 1612, it was renamed Bombay Marine in 1686.

- Bombay Marine came under ‘Royal’ control in 1830 and it was renamed 

His Majesty’s Indian Navy.

 

- Until 1745 there was no official British Royal Navy uniform. (article at page end)

- From 1745 until 1830 the Bombay Marine chose to ‘mimic’ the uniform of the Royal Navy, loosely I imagine.
- From 1830 His/Her Majesty’s Indian Navy wore the same uniform as the Royal Navy. 
 

Royal Navy Uniform.

Only Captains and the 3 Admiral ranks ever wore two epaulettes.

No rank marks (though officers had lace borders) were worn on the collar, rank stripes are still only worn on the cuffs.

Other mis matches can be seen too.

 

Surgeon uniforms had no lace border on the collar. They did however have a distinctive insignia on the collar. 
Clearly unlike that in the portrait.

 

 

This was all new to me just about.

However I have to reach the conclusion than your portrait does not show a British or Indian Navy uniform… 🤷‍♂️
That’s no bad thing in my opinion, it’s an interesting new branch on the family tree waiting to be found.

 

The only matching uniform I found was that of the US Navy (( as explained/pictured best I can in my previous reply 👍))

 

That revealed the significance of the acorn & leaves attached to your picture, it is his insignia which is, to this day, still the insignia of the…

U.S. Navy Medical Corps.

 

 

& That’s all I’ve got!

 

cheers

tony🍻

 

 

👇 From  GlobalSecurity. Org website 

 

“ The uniform of the Indian Navy has by and large been inherited from the Royal Navy. In that Service, the uniform has evolved over the past 250 years. At the beginning of the eighteenth century, there was no standard uniform for naval personnel, and each ship conformed more or less to the sartorial whims and fancies of her Captain.

History records that in 1745 a group of British naval officers decided to petition the Admiralty for an official uniform, as was being worn by other navies. This was done, and the Admiralty directed certain officers to appear in what they considered to be a good design. The final decision was to be left to King George II. 

One day while riding in Hyde Park, the King caught sight of the Duchess of Bedford, wife of the First Lord; who made a lovely picture dressed in a brand new riding habit. The color of the dress was a dark navy blue, with rows of gold buttons down the front, a white collar, and gold lace on the cuffs. The King was so taken up with this colour scheme that he immediately ordered its adoption for his Navy's uniform. There is some speculation that the colors the Duchess was wearing had been selected by her husband. Be that as it may, this was perhaps why the Navy's winter ceremonial uniform became a dark navy blue with a double row of buttons in front, gold stripes depicting rank on the cuffs, a white shirt with stiff collar, and a black tie. 
The epaulettes worn by all naval officers owe their origin to the French Navy, which passed them on to the British and thence to many other navies of the world. The epaulette is nothing but a decorative amplification of the shoulder strap, whose original function was to prevent the bandolier from slipping off the shoulder. In the early days, Lieutenants wore only one epaulette on their left shoulder. When in command, however, this epaulette was shifted to the right shoulder.”

 

 

 

13 hours ago, IanB said:

We don't seem to have had any family links to the US.

 

Hi Ian,

well it seems you might have to find that link 🥴

 

 

Quick timeline…

- East India company established 1600.

- Honourable East India company Marine established 1612, it was renamed Bombay Marine in 1686.

- Bombay Marine came under ‘Royal’ control in 1830 and it was renamed 

His Majesty’s Indian Navy.

 

- Until 1745 there was no official British Royal Navy uniform. (article at page end)

- From 1745 until 1830 the Bombay Marine chose to ‘mimic’ the uniform of the Royal Navy, loosely I imagine.
- From 1830 His/Her Majesty’s Indian Navy wore the same uniform as the Royal Navy. 
 

Royal Navy Uniform.

Only Captains and the 3 Admiral ranks ever wore two epaulettes.

No rank marks (though officers had lace borders) were worn on the collar, rank stripes are still only worn on the cuffs.

Other mis matches can be seen too.

 

Surgeon uniforms had no lace border on the collar. They did however have a distinctive insignia on the collar. 
Clearly unlike that in the portrait.

 

 

This was all new to me just about.

However I have to reach the conclusion than your portrait does not show a British or Indian Navy uniform… 🤷‍♂️
That’s no bad thing in my opinion, it’s an interesting new branch on the family tree waiting to be found.

 

The only matching uniform I found was that of the US Navy (( as explained/pictured best I can in my previous reply 👍))

 

That revealed the significance of the acorn & leaves attached to your picture, it is his insignia which is, to this day, still the insignia of the…

U.S. Navy Medical Corps.

 

 

& That’s all I’ve got!

 

cheers

tony🍻

 

 

👇 From  GlobalSecurity. Org website 

 

“ The uniform of the Indian Navy has by and large been inherited from the Royal Navy. In that Service, the uniform has evolved over the past 250 years. At the beginning of the eighteenth century, there was no standard uniform for naval personnel, and each ship conformed more or less to the sartorial whims and fancies of her Captain.

History records that in 1745 a group of British naval officers decided to petition the Admiralty for an official uniform, as was being worn by other navies. This was done, and the Admiralty directed certain officers to appear in what they considered to be a good design. The final decision was to be left to King George II. 

One day while riding in Hyde Park, the King caught sight of the Duchess of Bedford, wife of the First Lord; who made a lovely picture dressed in a brand new riding habit. The color of the dress was a dark navy blue, with rows of gold buttons down the front, a white collar, and gold lace on the cuffs. The King was so taken up with this colour scheme that he immediately ordered its adoption for his Navy's uniform. There is some speculation that the colors the Duchess was wearing had been selected by her husband. Be that as it may, this was perhaps why the Navy's winter ceremonial uniform became a dark navy blue with a double row of buttons in front, gold stripes depicting rank on the cuffs, a white shirt with stiff collar, and a black tie. 
The epaulettes worn by all naval officers owe their origin to the French Navy, which passed them on to the British and thence to many other navies of the world. The epaulette is nothing but a decorative amplification of the shoulder strap, whose original function was to prevent the bandolier from slipping off the shoulder. In the early days, Lieutenants wore only one epaulette on their left shoulder. When in command, however, this epaulette was shifted to the right shoulder.”

 

 

Hi Dana, 

I’ve shared your post in another section where hopefully someone might be able to help…

 

 

fingers crossed,

tony 🤞

Hi Gents,

can anyone help this member with the interpretation of an award certificate for a Kara-George Cross issued shortly after ww1 to a British soldier.

 

I’m sure any help with her difficult family research would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

tony 🍻

Hi Gents,

a few more in a similar style…

 

and the reverse for this one

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and below is one with, in my opinion, a suspiciously female looking soldier…

 

cheers

tony 🍻

 

3 hours ago, TracA said:

Magnificent series, Tony.

 

Tracy

Thank you Tracy

🍻🍻

34 minutes ago, Bernd_W said:

IMO this dos not work, eBay uses you last bid. 

If bid is 40 and you bid 100 or a couple bids up till 100, the bid will be 41 and in the last second someone might come and get it for 101.

Sniper tools are used for preventing the ping-pong you play at real hall auctions. If you get outbid and still have time (and money) you might bid again in the name of honor, even if you dont wanted to go that high. It can also be a matter of, in how much cases before you got outbid. All this kind of human behavior is prevented when the sniper tool bids in the last second. This kind of human behavior is quiet common imo, therefore hall auctions have no fixed end time.

I thought the sniper tool was a cheat 🫤 

You are surely right, if it’s legit then I’m sure my defence tactic makes no difference, after all EBay wants the maximum price 👍