jonightflyer

One or two further interesting pieces of memorabilia from Peter Jackson's personal collection that can now be seen at his new WW1 Aviation Heritage Centre in the South Island of New Zealand.

Personal items of Udet.

Imperial flight badges.

Panel cut from MvR's triplane by Australian troops at the scene of his death.

Some of his personal silver.

Dossenbach's original Blue Max.

Anyone like to chance their arm as to the original owners?

The 'Iron Cross' section would be the best place to post the RK... or a link there to the thread here.

Thanks very much guys... I'm away at an airshow for the next week or so but will try and link it up when I get back.

Any other comments would be welcome and thanks for the interest.

If possible, I would be very interested in seeing the display.

And from another frame.

Thanks if respective experts could give an opinion on the other items in the frames. Input on these much appreciated.

I'm interested to know whether this one is good and who the manufacturer might have been. It is not maker marked.

I can't unfortunately show the back as it is already framed as part of a display. Thanks for any info guys.

Wow, the story gets better and better, and you showed yourself a 'gent' in arranging the return of the medals to their rightful owner. Xmas has obviously come early to F/L trotman!

Wonderful group too!!

And much better did you have pictures of this handover??

I like such stories, they're just like fairytales

This story had a happy ending... I can report that I recently received a surprise visit from F/L Trotman and his charming wife at my home downunder in which he conveyed to me his relief and gratitude at having managed to find again and be reunited a year ago with his medals. We spent a terrific day together visiting amongst other things New Zealand's beautifully preserved Lancaster bomber.

Below a few pictures from that day.

F/L Trotman at the rear of the Lancaster.

F/L Trotman and his wife.

The New Zealand Lancaster.

Another view.

The Bomb bay.

An examination of the Sperrle piece (see photo above), seems to suggest that it is an everyday for wearing example in silver gilt with white sapphires (instead of solid gold with real diamonds of the award piece). These as I understand it were usually presented simultaneously to the recipient.

A quick comparison with the magnificent Skorzeny awarded badge shown above, seems to provide fairly conclusive evidence of this. (Note the silver showing through the gold plate in places and the lack of sparkle in the sapphires when compared to diamonds).

Here is the one from Skorzeny. I don?t know, for how much it went, but it was on the last HH-auction, if i am not mistaken.

The Combined Pilot's and Observer's Badge in Gold with Diamonds attributed to Generalfeldmarschall Hugo Sperrle is to be auctioned by Hermann Historica in early May. Estimated at Euro 65,000!

Nice Japanese flag, I think you have it up side down though.

Flipped it in Photobucket... should be right now.

I think you have it up side down though. believe the stains on my flag are caused by sweat rather than blood.

Oops... not much of an expert on these! Dad also gave me a Samurai sword taken in the same action... it had a kind of black and white mosaic scabbard made of wood with the mosaic pattern glued on in some way. To my everlasting horror, my brother and I used to use this sword for swordfighting and hence ruined the razor sharp cutting edge and bits of mosaic fell off the scabbard also due to our misuse. Military items such as these were not considered of much significance when he gave them to us.

Here is the one my father brought back from Burma in 1945. He told me that most the stains were human blood!

Along with the cash that they removed from dead Japs.

The above is a Hawker Sea Fury if I'm not mistaken.

For another good example, see: Kilduff, P. 1979, 'Germany's Last Knight Of The Air - The Memoirs Of Major Carl Degelow', page 183, Fig. bottom left.

Clear, b&w close up photograph, of the officially awarded PLM to Leutnant Josef Jacobs showing the u and r connected at top and bottom. (Enamel chipped at centre of cross).

The first one is a 1957 S&L so you would expect the letters 'u & r' to be connected...Marshall

Hi Marshall... thanks for the info... the first is claimed to be the award piece of Eduard Ritter von Schleich as per this statement from Ken Greenfield.

Quote: " The book's cover features the Orden Pour le M?rite ("Blue Max") of Hauptmann Eduard Ritter von Schleich (which remains in my collection and is one my most prized pieces) "

Here is a shot of the silver-gilt PLM with connected letters that Les refers to:

Here are two more with connected letters that are presumed genuine. The first attributable to Eduard Ritter von Schleich.

Thanks to Les for insightful post... but one question... shouldn't the gold piece be stamped "W".

This last one is beautiful. Lovely.

I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy.

Beautiful yes.... but could the experts give an opinion on whether it is genuine?

It is possible to make some close up please. Thanks Christophe

Very interesting thread... could you guys comment on this one. (Sorry if it has been covered previously).

German States

PRUSSIA, Pour-le-Merite

Cross in GOLD and enamels, hollow version, 1916-18. Very good details and quality, unmarked. Mounted on a full length of original neck ribbon. Enamels without any imperfections, in extremely fine condition. Excellent condition and quality, rare. (Sold with expertise of authenticity, D. Niemann).

Another forum has suggested that it is a genuine Wagner but why no mark and weren't the genuine gold pieces all pie slice suspensions?

Lt. Col. Frederick Meredyth Mangin RAMC.

This small but complete group was found amonst my Grandfather's possessions when he passed on. He served in the Indian police during the same time scale and must have been acquainted with Frederick Mangin. Research has shown that Mangin spent his entire career in India apart from service in South Africa but was in fact RAMC, British Army. The medals have been re-ribboned and mounted as they were loose in a trunk when we found them. John Sly who researched the group has confirmed that it is complete.

The medals are:- IGS Medal 1895-02, Bar Punjab Frontier 1897-98. (Surgn. Capt. F.M. Mangin AML), QSA Medal, Bars Cape Colony and South Africa 1902. (Capt. F.M. Mangin RAMC) and British War Medal 1914-18 (Lt. Col. F. M. Mangin).

Posting the group here as it might be of interest and the group contains a WW1 medal.

Next up is the AFC, DFC (US) and Air Medal with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters (US) grouping to Capt. Wessel Badenhorst, South African Air Force, who was shot down and killed in January 1951 whilst strafing the Chinese front lines in his Mustang. He was one of the original volunteers and a flight commander in the famous Flying Cheetah Squadron which South Africa sent to join the UN forces at the start of the Korean War.

Capt. Badenhorst's widow receiving his two US decorations (which she is wearing) from the United States Ambassador to South Africa.

Below is the eyewitness account of Capt. Badenhorst's last flight from his wingman.

Capt. Badenhorst and his wife and the letter of condolence to her from the Commanding Officer of No.2 Squadron SAAF, the famous Flying Cheetahs.

Some bombing of hostile villages and tribal war parties. Hazardous work, with lots of ground fire at "stringbag" aircraft and the possibility of a really nasty end if one made a forced landing in the wrong spot!

Herewith the document that recommended Lale for the award of a Bar to the DFC. Look to bottom right for the mention of his forced landing on a polo field!

truly outstanding, as a by the by i live about 2000 yards away from the raf museum at hendon, should you ever need any info from there, please just ask.

Very kind of you Doug... thanks for the offer

Some bombing of hostile villages and tribal war parties. Hazardous work, with lots of ground fire at "stringbag" aircraft and the possibility of a really nasty end if one made a forced landing in the wrong spot!

Very true... Lale won a DSO and a Bar to his WW1 DFC during these operations in India.

I have copies of the official documents that recommended Lale for the Waziristan decorations... they make amazing reading and are highly detailed, including if I remember rightly, details of how he returned from one bombing raid on the NWF and made an emergency landing in a badly shot up Bristol Fighter on a polo ground!

Concerning the logbooks, I have a question. Have two logbooks from the same person, and their contents are almost identically. The first is an Observer and Air Gunners Flying Log Book. The second one is a Navigator's Air Bombers and Air Gunner's Flying Log Book. So the books are almost identically. The titles of the books differs and the first log book is more detailed. An example: F/Sgt Nicolson's dog Rex regurlarly flew together with the crew on training missions. Every flying hour of Rex is mentioned. The second book is mentioning the same training missions, but Rex isn't mentioned.

My question: does a member of the aircrew had an official logbook and a more personal one? Or what should be the reason of these two different log books which are covering the same period. With kind regards, merry Christmas, Jef.

Hi Jef, in my experience it would be most unusual for an operative during the war to be maintaining two log books. Often these guys were so tired that they had trouble accurately recording everything in one book (as they were required to do by regulations). I was told by a navigator in 207 Squadron that they often filled out their log books several days after a raid and in some instances got other people to do it for them! He believed many mistakes and inaccuracies were able to creep into these documents due to this... very understandable under the circumstances.