JohanH

Hello!

Is the pictured order of the German Eagle of the version that was awarded in 1942?

Is it real or fake?

It is the correct order for this document right?

Except that it should be a commander’s cross around the neck. Otherwise yes. 

Hello!

Yes I remember that discussion and yes he would have the neck cross to go with the breast star. 
 

Since he got it in 1908 it would have been a neck cross in gold. 
 

While Ebbing should have gotten a gilt cross in 1968. 

2 hours ago, Kvart said:

I'm researching this guy, the Norwegian colonel Hans Nicolay E. Ebbing. I know he was made Grand Officier of the Belgian Order of the crown during the royal Belgian state visit til Norway in 1965.

My question is: which insignia would he, as a foreign Grand Officier of the Order of the crown, receive? Would he get only the breast badge of Grand Officier grade? Or said breast badge plus the officier insignia, like in today's French orders? Or would he get the breast star plus the commander's neck badge?

 

 

 

He was also made commander first class of the Swedish Order of the Sword. That is the same grade as in the Belgian Order of the crown. I think the Swedish award happened some time between 1968 and 1973, but here I'm not sure. As a foreigner in that period, what insignia of the order would he get? Just this breast star? Or this breast star together with the commander's cross to wear around his neck?

 

Ebbing received the Commander 1st grade of the Order of the Sword on September 26th 1968. 

So he got both the breast star of the type you show and the neck cross. 

Commander 2nd grade was just the neck cross. 

L von Blanc got the Dannebrogorden on November 16th 1889. 

See this clip from the Danish State Calendar of 1890 with his entry. 

1 hour ago, laurentius said:

That is early. His certificate of award says 15-06-1923 whilst the note in the documents of the Dutch chancellary of orders has it written down on 25-01-1923. Do you know why this might be?

See the Bulgarian document in this topic. 

the different dates could be when the king decided to give the order (date in the roll), the date of the award ceremony or the date of approval from the Dutch government. 

January 25th must be a typo, since the king made the decision in march. 

21 minutes ago, laurentius said:

Dear fellow collectors,

 

I was recently able to purchase the Commandeurskruis (commander's cross) of the Order of Orange-Nassau awarded to the Dutch mayor Gerard Abraham Willem ter Pelkwijk. I was aware at the moment of purchase that this piece had belonged to a large group containing amongst others five different European orders together with six Dutch orders, two medals, miniatures, books and other documents. It came from the former collection of Frans Riemersma. This grouping was sold on 13 januari 2022. After the auction it was split up and sold separately. I want to know whether anyone is aware where some of the pieces have ended. I also wonder about a number of the award dates.

 

-Date of award of his Order of the Oak Crown (Luxemburg), the Dutch chancellary of orders has it written down as 16-05-1914.

-Date of award of his Legion D'Honneur (France), the Dutch chancellary of orders has it written down as 10-10-1914.

-Date of award of his Order of the Northstar (Sweden), the Dutch chancellary of orders has it written down as 25-01-1923.

-Date of award of his Order of St. Olaf (Norway).

-Date of award of his Order of Orange-Nassau (Netherlands, he recieved the Officier's cross somewhere in 1923 for organising the silver jubilee of Queen Wilhelmina, recipient number 3223).

-Date of award of his Order of the Star (Romania), the Dutch chancellary of orders has it written down as 11-09-1930.

-Date of award of his Red Cross Decoration (Netherlands).

-Date of award of his House Order of Orange (visible on his pictures in 1938, so the date of award is 1938 or before).

-Date of award of his Order of the Netherlands Lion (Netherlands). The Dutch chancellary of orders has him written down as the 9792th recipient.

-Date of award of his House Order of Orange (commander's cross).

-Date of award of his Order of Orange-Nassau (Netherlands), commander's cross, awarded in 1948 with recipient number 3417.

 

As you can see I have been able to figure out some information about him but his history is like a Swiss cheese, full of holes. Any help would be appreciated. I will attach some pictures in the hope that someone may recognize the decorations. Attached you will find a picture of the piece now in my collection (recognisable by the red velvet in the crown), a picture of the grouping at auction and a picture of Ter Pelkwijk himself.

 

Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurens Stroek

 

I remember seeing that group for sale at auction. 

Here is his entry in the award roll of the Order of the North Star. March 2nd 1923.

2 hours ago, svapr said:

Hello, could you advise me what this is? Thank you.

That cross looks familiar...

Was it not for sale on Tradera in Sweden a while ago?

Did you buy it? And can we see a photo of the reverse?

The date for the 60th day order was May 19th 1918. 

And as I said, it was with swords according to the original list of awards to germans (not the day orders). 

9 hours ago, oamotme said:

Gentlemen,

 

From a dealer sale of some years ago - not mine I hasten to add.

 

My specific interest is in the Jordanian Gratitude Medal of 1970. Awarded by Jordan to those who took part in the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Mission after the black September civil war. I believe the Nordic countries sent NGO's not military medical units. The UK military medical team went in civilian clothes as member of the British Red Cross.

 

“By 28 September the National Societies of the following countries had sent or promised relief in the form of medical supplies, foodstuffs, vehicles, blood plasma, dressing material, surgical instruments, blankets, clothing and cash: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Finland, France, German Federal Republic, Great Britain, Italy, Kuwait, Lebanon, Morocco, New Zealand, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and Yugoslavia. Several governments and charitable organizations also announced contributions. ----- At the ICRC’s request a number of national societies sent or promised medical teams to Jordan to work under the flag of the International Committee. ----- The ICRC accepted British and American government’s offers to send surgical and medical teams to Jordan to work under the sign of the Red Cross in combination with the assistance programme already started by the ICRC.” ICRC Report October 1970.

 

I have identified the awards, I think, as follows: Cross of Liberty, 3^rd Class with Oak Leaves; Cross of Liberty, 3^rd Class; Cross of Liberty, 4^th Class; Order of the Lion of Finland, Knight 1^st Class, 1939-40 Winter War, clasp ‘Karjalan-Kannas’ (Karelian-Isthmus) with Swords; 1941-45 War Medal; 1939-40 Central Karelian Isthmus Cross; 1941-44 Eastern Isthmus Cross; Germany Third Reich - Iron Cross, 2^nd Class; Jordan - Gratitude Medal 1970. Is the group original ? I have no idea.

 

Perhaps the recipient was initially a soldier then after 1945 became an administrator or a doctor. Any ideas? 

 

Thanks,

 

Owain

 

 

That is a very interesting group! 
 

Your identification of the medals are correct and the bar looks original to me. 
 

I would say that the only way to ID the original owner is to find a roll of the Jordanian medal and go from there. All the other medals are too common. 
 

As far as I know there are no complete list of iron crosses to finns. My own list has around 500 names so there where a lot of awards made. 

There were two von Winterfeld who got the Swedish order of the Sword 2nd class commander. 

Hans Carl Hugo (your guy I presume) who was adjutant for the kaiser and

Hans Carl who was oberst.

Hans Carl Hugo von Winterfeld got the award on June 2nd 1875 and

Hans Carl got it on January 21st 1914.

9 minutes ago, laurentius said:

Thank you for this information. Does it say why he got it? Seems a bit odd that a German police commissioner should receive such an award.

 

That is before the Swedish Orders went dormant in 1975 right?

 

Kind regards, Laurentius

Unfortunately no, my list only tells the name, rank and date. As far as I know there are no citations on why someone was awarded an order in Sweden. Possibly there might exists something in the royal archives but i doubt it. 

Yes, the very last order of Vasa 2nd class was awarded on December 12th 1973. To a German female attaché. 

At the same day as Meixner got his award there was several germans who got the same order. See my list below. 

3 hours ago, laurentius said:

Dear fellow collectors,

 

Since a few days I have a Wasa-Order 2nd class in my possession which belonged to a certain H. Meixner. He worked as a Kriminalhauptkommissar with the German police. I wonder if anyone could help me find the date of the award and any possible pictures of him? I've tried google, but alas it redirected me to more famous members of the Meixner family.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Kind regards, Laurentius

Hello!

Heinrich Meixner got the Order of Vasa on May 2nd 1972. 

He was the 1422nd person of a total of 1471 to get that order. 

Unfortunately no. There are no dates in the list. 

Hello!

There will be a list of almost 3500 Libertycrosses awarded to Germans during 1918 published later this year. 

Among those names are Hartog and yes, he got the Libertycross 1st class with swords. 

Here is a clip from the Danish State Calendar 1890. It says Oberstlieutnant, but perhaps they updated his rank in the state calendar when he got promoted?

Here is the clip from the Norwegian state calendar of 1890. It says Major...

I also checked the Danish State Calendar of 1889 and there he is listed as major. 

Commander 2nd class of the Order of Dannebrog on August 25th 1888.

Commander 2nd class of the Order of St Olav on September 24th 1888.

Bernhard von Lippe got the Swedish Order of the Sword on July 12th 1895. 

5 minutes ago, saxcob said:

 

Did you happen to complete the list in the meantime?

Hello!

Unfortunately no, I have been working on the list of recipients of the Swedish Order of the Sword. 
 

But I own two pieces of Vasatecknet. One with a rosette for a female recipient.  

This has already been discussed.

On 20/08/2023 at 23:39, seeheld said:

This is an original Knight Cross with the Crown. 

The griffin Order don't know a Knight Cross 1st Class or 2nd Class.

The maker is Rose. Most probably given to the Man in between 1904-1910.

No of awards: 600+

 

after quick search in my database I found 2 Persons in Service for the Congo State

 

1. Derche, Emile Jules Vincent - dob 11.07.1867 - Mreira, Oberadjunkt im Dienste des Kongostaates - RKmK 21.03.1908

2. Engh, Dr. jur., Martin - dob 24.03.1874 - Kristiania, Chef de zone de 1ere class an Congo Belge - RKmK 19.10.1908

 

I guess No. 2 is the seached previous Owner.

 

I'm really in Love with this lovely group!!!

I think you are right about it being Engh. 

Martin Engh received the Belgian order of Leopold and Crown, Order of the Lion and a servicemedal. 

Here is a photo of Engh. Unfortunately I don't know which of the men is Engh. 

Photo from:
Engh, Martin (1874 - 1942) - DigitaltMuseum

03347x7iYyQu.jfif

Do you have a picture or a link?

On 10/08/2023 at 17:08, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Thanks. But he did get the 2nd Class with Swords?

Sorry! I missed your message. 

Attached are a photo from the book Kunnian ruletti: korkeimmat ulkomaalaisille 1941-1944. 

I understand it that he had the 2nd class cross. I can't say for certain but most likely it was the version with swords. There were only 53 crosses without swords awarded so I would say it was the version with swords. 

1 hour ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Johan, could you check again in Antti Matikkala's book if Admiral Hubert Schmundt received on 25 March 1942 the Finnish Order of the Cross of Liberty 1st Class just "with Swords" or "with Oak Leaves and Swords"?

His Personalakte lists both versions...

Thanks!

Hubert Schmundt is not in the list of Libertycrosses 1st class with swords and oakleaves in Matikkala's book. Only in the list over 1st class crosses with swords. 

16 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Great!

I still sent an e-mail to the order chancellery like you suggested.

Unfortunately all I found was that he got it in 1942. No precise date. 

I have found a little more information about Meisel. I will look it up more closely after work tomorrow. 
 

I’ll be back! 😁