JohanH

On 11/04/2023 at 20:05, Stefan said:

Here is another miniature bar.

 

To a Swede in Finland 1918 and one medal is for the conquest of Helsinki - not Tampere as one would think!

That leads us to that the man that got it most certainly served at the Swedish legation in Helsinki.

But as JohanH recognize above - the lists doesn't always fit the medal bar 🤬

 

My list of people that were there in Helsinki 1918 is so far:

Karl Sigurd Fredriksson af Ekström
Nils Leon Jaenson
Henrik Leonard Lagerlöf
Knut Karl Folke Malmar

 

...but their decorations do not fit the one below. Some of the foreign orders can come from the nations that they helped out during 1918 in Helsinki or from a attache career after 1918.

So, any more suggestions?

 

 

Regards,

Stefan

 

 

 

That is a strange bar!

The position of the Vasa-order suggests a Swede. But the Finnish winterwar medal is of the type awarded to finnish citizens...

Could the Vasa order have been a replacement for the Italian Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus? They share the same ribbon. 

But the winterwar medal still don't make sense if it is to a foreigner. 

If we assume that the first one is Italian, then all the others (except the last one) is in correct alphabetical order. 

Dannebrogorden before 1947 and S:t Olav orden before 1937.

That's him!

He received the Lion order and S:t Olav later in life, that's why they are not on this miniature bar. 

I went through a lot of different Rullor and he is a perfect match in 1950 (if I remember correctly, it could have been a earlier year). I still have not found any one else that fits. 

I would not bet my life on it but I am pretty sure it is his medals. 

The shooting medal is blank on the back.

The libertycross is verified with the list of crosses to Swedes and he got one with red cross. 

6 hours ago, Stefan said:

Great Johan,

 

then I put my research on hold  🙂

 

Regards,

Stefan

 

My miniature bar did most likely belong to Yngve Hildebrand, dentist. 1895-1982.

28 minutes ago, Stefan said:

 

Hi!

The Russian Tsar visited Stockholm in 1909 and many awards were handed out. So this could be to a NCO in the receiving regiment - one of the Stockholm regiments at the time.

 

Regards,

Stefan

 

 

Any year on the back of the Finnish red cross medal?

Could also have been a doctor serving in 1918 and then helping out the Finns in Sweden during WW2?

I'll see what I can find...

 

//Stefan

Hello Stefan. 
No need for you to look it up. I have already ID it.  I’ll post the name when I get home. 
 

The NCO bar is most likely an officers bar with the order of sword replaced by the sign of the sword. I have the list of Lingiaden medals (third) so it is just a matter of time to find the name. 

I agree. I have never thought it to be the Finnish Liberty cross.

My message was a reply to P.F. who said it could possibly be the Liberty cross. My reply was only meant to say that it is highly unlikely that it is the Liberty cross since there is no von Ilsemann in the roll of crosses to germans. 

15 minutes ago, BalkanCollector said:

Thank you for your honest assessment! I guess it's impossible to track and notice patterns then.

I could very well be wrong. So don't give up just because of me.

Here is a 3rd class cross with two rivets awarded in december 1941 to a german oberstabsarzt. 

IF the document and cross really belong together. 

To quote Jani Tiainens great book on Finnish awards:

"First 1941-types of 3rd and 4th classes of the cross of Liberty were manufactured similarly as 1939 - Winter War types. Surface was painted black with lacquer paint and year marked on the reverse side was embossed. Most of the crosses from Continuation War period have stamped year and black oxidized surface. Awards made during Continuation War have similar stamped numbers as types 1941. Some replacement pieces manufactured after the war can be found with engraved numbers. 
3rd and 4th class crosses from Continuation War have much more different variations than earlier types. Differences can be found from general shape, thickness, central rose and its attachment. The heaviest variations are almost 50% heavier than the lightest crosses."

The earliest awarded 1941 crosses were made in the same style as 1939 crosses with "numbers popping out". These are getting harder and harder to find. 

There are 1939 crosses with the year stamped, just like the 1941 crosses. These are also difficult to find. Probably given as duplicates or to those who got the award late after the old stock was empty. 

Honestly I don't think it is possible to make any conclusions on when the different styles were awarded. There are ALOT of different types of Liberty crosses. From small subtle differences to big differences like the ones you show. 

Also you can never really know if a cross and a certificate really belong together unless they come directly from the original family. To pair up awards with documents to get a higher price is extremely common. 

With risk of sounding negative, I'm sorry to say it but I think you are working on an impossible task.

I like this photo of Verner Gustafsson!

He is wearing two Liberty crosses, two White Roses and two German Eagles. And alot of other medals and orders. 

46 minutes ago, P.F. said:

Last two possibly:

-Finnish Order of Liberty

-Bulgarian Order of St. Alexander with Swords

There is not a von Ilsemann in my list of German recipients of the Liberty Cross. 

My intention of mentioning the customs fee was not in any way negative. I only meant it as information. 

I am a proud member of this forum and will gladly help to keep it running! With our without customs fee, a real supporter would buy the pins anyway. 

Two beautiful pins arrived today!

The post in Sweden wanted 1.43€ in tax and 6.72€ in handling fee. 

I second the comment Azyeoman made about your hard work! 

Here is my miniature. 

Very nice collection!

Unfortunately I still don't have anyone in my collection. Only a miniature. 

Here is a very old and unusual Swedish miniature. 

I just ordered two badges so I would like one regular and one green if possible.

Here are two royal commemorative medals. 

Gustav VI Adolf 85 years birthday in 1967. Awarded  650 times. 

Carl XVI Gustaf 50 years birthday in 1996. Awarded 498 times. 

On 29/12/2022 at 15:58, christerd said:

: can´t see any silver marks , but it looks like silver 

There were 91 Libertycrosses of 4th class with red cross awarded to Swedes during 1941-1944. So it would take a lot of work to ID but not impossible. 

I'll see if I can find any possible suspects...

Could it be vapenrock m/1845?

See this uniform that belonged to Oscar II. 

Vapenrock m/1845 - Armémuseum / DigitaltMuseum

You could ask Armémuseum if they know. They are usually very helpful. 

Vapenrock till Oskar I:s generalsuniform m:1845 - Sök i samlingarna (shm.se)

Vapenrock till uniform m: 1845 för general. - Sök i samlingarna (shm.se)

I seems like I need to look in earlier state calendars to see if I could ID the original recipient. 

I think it should be possible since this order was not that usual to Swedes.

Does anyone have any idea if the Italian order of crown is possible to date?

Here is the back. Not much to see but still...

Court mounted. 

Here is the whole medalbar. 

16 hours ago, Antonio Prieto said:

This crowned FR monograme are in use between 1847-1868, the Reign of the Queen Isabel II of Spain

Thank you Antonio!

That was much earlier than I thought. I thought I had ID:ed the medalbar but if it is that early my theory crashes since my suspect was born in 1886. 

The hunt for a new suspect continues. 

BTW do you have any idea of how much it could be worth?

If I will fail with my ID it won't stay in my collection since the medalbar only has foreign orders and no Swedish or Finnish which is what I collect. 

1 hour ago, JohanH said:

Hello!

 

Is there any way to date a Order of Isabella the Catholic?

 

I have recently got a small medalbar with an knight Italian Order of the Crown and the Spanish knight Order of Isabella the Catholic and would like to know if it is possible to date it?

 

A picture is on it's way. 

Here is the photo. Unfortunately there is a damage in the enamel on the back . 

Hello!

Is there any way to date a Order of Isabella the Catholic?

I have recently got a small medalbar with an knight Italian Order of the Crown and the Spanish knight Order of Isabella the Catholic and would like to know if it is possible to date it?

A picture is on it's way. 

Now you have a few more photos of him. 🙂