Gilles

One even made it to the Freikorps! There is a famous photograph by Heinrich Hoffmann of a black driver of the Freikorps Epp in Munich in his car.

Klick on #35

http://www.google.de/imgres?q=freikorps+berlin+1919&hl=de&sa=X&biw=1536&bih=745&tbm=isch&tbnid=8Q9eIIs1RphjgM:&imgrefurl=http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_imglist.cfm%3Fstartrow%3D31%26sub_id%3D99%26section_id%3D12%26language%3Dgerman&docid=7eqxRSTEACV5TM&imgurl=http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/images/hoff-52501.jpg&w=580&h=414&ei=BJs_UYdkx8q0BrO1gbAK&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=398&vpy=86&dur=418&hovh=190&hovw=266&tx=134&ty=84&page=3&tbnh=137&tbnw=191&start=64&ndsp=37&ved=1t:429,r:73,s:0,i:305

One even made it to the Freikorps! There is a famous photograph by Heinrich Hoffmann of a black driver of the Freikorps Epp in Munich in his car.

Another photo from the category unusual use of skulls.

Can it be that this very probable artist is (painfully!) wearing a "Sicher wie Jold" medal on his breast?

There could me more skulls on this picture than we first thought!

What a strange idea to halve the badge and sew the crown under the W!

With a real Entnobilierung, the crown would just have been cut off.

What makes us think that these are German badges?

What makes us think that these are military badges?

Regards

G.

Is it really an imperial device? It does look modern for the time!

There seems to be some kind of misunderstandin as Charles is looking for the following book by Baldwin & Fisher (and not by Kraus)!

Yes, I should have done it, it is a pity I haven't. It was a black skull with red eyes and ared mouth together with a very strange description. I was puzzled.

You can notice that the auction ended on March 15th and Robin started this thread on May 17th.

Can't find it. What was it ??

It was the very first appearance of the black skull patch, months (or weeks) before antikfuchs sold it (or sold one).

The Berlin based seller described it as a WWI patch of the "Nebelwerfer-Truppe". This mix of branch knowledge and error (for someone who had proposed many a militaria item in the past) made me very sceptical at the time.

Regards

Gilles

please read "sounded"

Robin,

Sorry for the bad pun, Mr Fox is Heiko Fuchs.

Maybe it is some kind of over-cautious reaction from me. It always gives collectors a headache when the same extremly rare & non regulation item appears suddenly several times - in a rather short time, after Detlev Niemann opened Pandorra's box when he showed both sides of his patches- and in a close geographic range. The text to the first sell on Ebay (as a patch of WWI "Nebeltruppe") sounded pretty much like deception and made me very suspicious from the beginning.

But as any human being, I may be wrong.

Regards

Gilles

By cleaning my email-account, I found against all odds a trace of this offer that sound very tricky to me.

holen Sie sich jetzt das beobachtete Angebot, bevor ein Anderer schneller ist.

Ärmelabzeichen Nebel truppe WW1 WK1 Aktueller Preis:

EUR 24,50 Angebotsende: 15.03.09 16:59:23 MEZ Mein eBay aufrufen | Alle beobachteten Artikel aufrufen

A different pattern would be one thing, a different material another. The first doesn’t necessarily imply the second.

What about the light incidence?

On Robin’s picture comparing the grey and the black skull, you can see that the light makes the skull appear higher, clearly above sea-level...

Especially the jaw... and it doesn't seem to me that his skull is made "of stamped or cast metal"

Why does the skull on the right of #1076 have to be a metal one?

I won't contest it for the skull in the middle, but the one on the right could be made of cloth and have been directly sewn on the sleeve.

By the way, I have a photo of a machine gunner attached to the Howitzer Battery of Sturmbataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr), and he wears his "W" badge on his upper right arm.

If you mean this picture, I won't follow you, because of the form and above all the size of what could have all chances to be a stain

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/43415-identify-this-unit-and-arm-badge/page__p__401651__hl__+sleeve%20+patch__fromsearch__1#entry401651

It's unfortunately no good news for ambiguous theories about the position of the skull-patch by Rohr's men.

If after reading books on the history of the movement you want a very precise look at the badges of the Freikorps and Einwohnerwehr units, then have a look at the new comprehensive catalogue by Ingo Haarcke.

Here you go...

http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/275-5736124-1991553?__mk_de_DE=%C5M%C5Z%D5%D1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=haarcke+freikorps

(However in German)

Somewhere, sometime a Schirmmütze was for sale that had this very insignia on its left side. Normally I think, they were supposed to be worn on the left cuff or above.

"strange" ones

http://www.ebay.de/itm/150703809984?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Gilles

I will try to manage a sort of multi-answer:

The picture was shot in Berlin during the Kapp-Putsch in March 1920. Ehrhardt is identified with the x under it.

The skull was the insignia of the Sturmkompagnie of the Brigade Ehrhadt.

Many insignias were worn on Freikorps uniforms as many smaller units were subordinated to a bigger unit belonging to a much larger group. Here you can read it upwards as Sturmkompagnie of the Brigade Ehrhardt in the GKSD.

A navy wounded badge.

Closer view of the sleeve "badge":

Unfortunately, the lack of quality of the picture unables to confirm the existence of any sleeve patch on the picture.

"Speaking of the "St." abbreviation"

I know that the concept of Stammkompanie was used by the Germans during WWII. I am away from my books to check the use of the term during WWI.

However, you'd be surprised to see a skull being worn on a cap of a Stamm unit. What we don't know, is if the moment whe the skull was added to the cap. Freikorps could then be a possibility. It's a rather uncommon skull pattern.

Regards

Gilles

Unpleasant question: are they being faked?

I mean the Souville badges.

Regards

Gilles

Both are French badges, which number has the para badge?

Have a look at the following link for the panther on the black star, a resistance badge:

http://maquis.voila....age8/index.html

Have a look at the Loire-Atlantique here

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loire-Atlantique

Regards

Gilles

Eric,

This badge was also worn by the Stahlhelm.

"Abzeichen des Regiments Reinhardt im Verbande des Stahlhelms" is the exact description,

see Deutsche Uniform- und Rangabzeichen, Militair-Verlag Klaus D. Patzwall, Norderstedt, 1987

Regards

Gilles

"...unofficial badges were a lot more common than the experts claim."

Thomas,

I disagree with your sentence. On the contrary, Kraus did make aware in his study a few years ago of the variety of non-regulation patches!

What makes them as difficult to catch as fragile butterflies is that they were non-reg and had short lives. The Kaiser did not allow to triffle with the uniforms of his armies. What some platoon leaders for sure created at the front or on some training grounds, eager to have his troops proudly wear a patch just like the MGSS platoons or the GRPR, was to be taken off for parades. The Ministry of war did not sleep...

As the soldiers were less fetichists than we collectors are, they did not always showed their sleeves properly to the photograph, so evidence is scarce.

What could speak for a patch on your photograph is that the pioneer doesn't wear shoulder straps.However the limits of the quality of the photograph and of my poor eyes don't make the evidence (this time) conclusive

Regards

Gilles