Tommy Chen

I even thought you went to a museum but looking at the photos it was even better than the museum.😵 Please let us know when this gentleman opens one. Could you please also post more medalbars if you have taken pictures of them? 

5 hours ago, Mattyboy said:

i saved these photos from ebay years ago. I believe it says Hptm Nordmann beneath the caricature. The second photo is of FAA 234. The man in the centre with the large medal bar and two flying badges looks similar to the drawing. It 'might' be him. 

 

Sadly both photos are quite small. 

Appreciate your sharing, these two pics indeed contribute more info about him. Do you mind if I share the photo on another forum so others can also look for some information?

1 hour ago, Soderbaum said:

Hi

It was not allowed to wear two flying badges on the uniform, except if not wearing an Prußian/Bavarian  together with an Bulgarian or Türkish flying badge.

 

Nordmann was the commander of FAA 246 on the Macedonian front before he took over FAA 234. 

 

Lt dR Franz Kanzler served in FAA 234 between 25.10.1917 until 17.07.1918.

 

The second photo is probably not from "one" FAA/FA, due its to many flyers on that photo. Could be a mixed of two units ?

Anyway, interesting photos 😀

 

Gunnar

Thank you for providing more info!

May we see the pic of back side?

4 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

I can't really help other than to say that I agree that there should be a OZL on there. Fortunately that's a fairly easy swap. I also would like to see detailed photos of those documents, in particular the one for the Ehrenbecher.

Thanks，for myself I probably will not consider to touch it since you need to tear the whole bar down for replacing a award. Though this one could be little easier，still will damage other threads and cloth. 

I hope I could get the better pics for the awards papers too，but you need to pay for it if you want better quality. My friend told me that these are probably from Hermann. They would sell the right of use of their auctions’ photos to make extra $. That’s also why you cant find their archives of previous auctions.

28 minutes ago, spolei said:

The manufacturer of the three MVO is Weiss&Co. The enamel of the right one looks awful. It should look like the left one. 

Thanks for answering. The light was bad and my phone camera processed too much. Probably that’s the reason why enamel looks so awful😂. Sadly，I don’t have another pic of them right now. Enamels are basicly the same if you actually look at them.

Hi guys, 

Recently got this medalbar without the owner's info. With the help of Mr. Moritz and Mr. Daniel Krause, the potential owner of this bar could be Hauptmann/Captain Ernst Nordmann from the IR 112, later spotter and leader of the Fliegerabteilung 234, retiring as a Major. I would like to express my sincerest gratitude to these two gentlemen for helping me find this name and other info.

Sadly, the Zähringer VK on his bar is wrong and there should be the knights cross second class on it. No idea how this happened, please provide any opinions you have.

About Hauptmann/Captain Ernst Nordmann, we were only able to find a few websites containing his name and unit but not personal photos:

http://www.frontflieger.de/2-faa234.html

https://www.buddecke.de/afa234.htm

Luckily, we found 4 pics from Alamy that have his full awards certificates and EK1. But the resolution is poor and the source is unknown, probably from previous Hermann's auction?

https://www.alamy.com/captain-ernst-nordmann-leader-o-20th-century-editorial-use-only-image245917539.html

Moritz also found that he took part in a book „Jungdeutschlands Fliegerbuch“. Here is the all info we have now. Please make comments or provide your opinions if you have any new findings or thoughts on this medalbar. Thanks.

Got mine with the case even cheaper then this😂

Three of mine，2 by Godet.

mao huang hao🤣

On 12/09/2022 at 11:09, Simius Rex said:

The OP properly discloses that the bar is postwar in his eBay description, but he didn't follow my advice on how to get most (and possibly all) of his money back. 

 

I indicated that the awards should be sold individually in order to achieve prices that would allow for the recovery of his initial investment amounting to $3,700. 

 

The current eBay auction is like selling a pile of awards wholesale.  People who collect Lippe, for example, aren't going to pay top dollar for the different varieties of other awards just to acquire one Lippe cross.  A dealer will likely buy the lot wholesale, remove the awards, and offer them individually for retail prices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Agreed, I would have pulled this thing apart.

I really appreciate your advice of selling them individually for my benefit, but personally I really don't like to take a whole medalbar apart eventhough it is a postwar assemblage. I think it's best to sell it as-is since I've seen too many medalbars that have been terribly torn down.  No offense, but that's probably my ambiguous collection trait.

On 31/08/2022 at 06:43, Simius Rex said:

It looks like you paid appx $3,700 including fees for this medal bar.  If you were to sell each of the awards on the bar individually at their full retail prices, you would eventually succeed, more or less, in getting your money back. 

 

In my opinion, buying an expensive German medal bar without having the requisite knowledge and experience in this highly specialized area of collecting (especially today considering all the fake bars circulating in the market) is just plain absurd. 

 

I do not believe your 3 choices for an expert evaluation of the bar are optimal.  In fact, in my honest opinion, they are all underqualified to properly evaluate the authenticity of medal bars in general.  If you're interested finding in why, you can send me a PM.

 

Personally, I would contact either Michael Autengruber (user name orden-der-welt) or Andreas Schulze-Ising (user name Medalnet).  They are both internationally recognized for their expertise in this field and offer professional appraisal services that will stand-up to scrutiny.   

Thank you so much for your advice and long comment sir. I think I probably will keep this bar for a while since at least the orders and ribbons are good, and the refund process is so annoying. I believe this discussion at least would warm the people about other "impressive" medal bars in the future.

17 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

Your second round of photos look much better. 

 

In response to your question, the SEHO-medal is a private-purchase piece because it lacks the Bügelöse of the awarded medals.  Instead it has a standard suspension eyelet and ring.  It also lacks the Stempelschneider's initials on the obverse.

 

Also, your Iron Cross is a one-piece construction.  It is not the 3-piece construction we normally see on awarded pieces and many better quality interwar Spangenstücke.  The Iron Cross experts will have to tell you if your cross is a legit interwar, private-purchase Spangenstück featuring one-piece construction, or a postwar fake. 

 

The good news is that you have a nice assortment of original decorations in fabulous condition for your collection and some nice original ribbons you can display them with.  The not so good news is that I believe the bar itself is a postwar assemblage. The order in which the awards are mounted and the combination of awards themselves makes no sense whatsoever.  I can't even say that it is an Ernst Blass piece because the combination of original awards he used on his fake medal bars (at the very least) had some measure of plausibility to them.

 

Where was this piece auctioned? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your answers. Well, that's really mixed news. Now I have to decide whether to keep this bar or try to get a refund from teh auction house. I bought this from C&T Auctions, which is a British company, also the first time saw a such "impressive" German medal bar on it. I also submitted an evaluation request to EMEDALS, Zeige, and Ratisbons to see what they would say. Since C&T's refund policy also requires expert's assessment but not forum disscussion?. Anyway, thank you again for your comments, and I will post their evaluation once I get feedbacks.

12 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

My initial reaction was similar, the combination of awards and the reverse hardware indicate something assembled fairly recently. I believe the EK is a one-piece Spangenstueck, and I agree that the rest of the medals are genuine. This bar is a dangerous product of someone who really knows what they're doing, and reminds me of the fake bar produced by a member here some months ago.

Well, I guess it's really bad for me that the first "big piece" is such a delusive thing. I probably should check this forum regularly in the future to avoid such dangerous things.? 

2 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

To the OP: I don't know what you're doing to your photos, but they're overexposed and oversaturated.  It makes the bar look cheap and new.  You did a much better job photographing the back. 

 

Try adjusting the settings on your camera.  Either that, or take some time to edit your pics in Photoshop so they look more like the photo below.  Also, try for higher resolution images.  You can post up to 2MB on this forum.  

 

That being said, I carefully examined each one of the decorations and ribbons on your bar.  I'm 50-50 sure the EK but definitely the SEHO are interwar private-purchase pieces.  The rest of the awards are fine originals.  The ribbons are all pre-1945 ribbons but I am a skeptical about the pin & catch. 

 

There is a possibility that original ribbons and beautiful original awards were mounted on a postwar frame, so if at all possible, lift up the covering on the reverse and photograph the area underneath. 

 

 

 

 

@Flávio P.Z.Peixoto  It's fine to want to participate in discussions, but there is no need to trash the OP's bar and give him a heart attack when you don't know what you're talking about.  Next time, maybe you should wait for some experienced collectors to chime in first.  

 

 

Thank you so much for your analysis. I also attached some new pics below, hoping they are better for you examing this bar. One question in my mind is that why such high-rank bar would have a relatively low-quality EK2 and how could you tell that SEHO is a private-purchase piece? For the new pics you can see that the sides of this medal bar are not sealed, is that a normal circumstance? Thank you.

1 hour ago, Flávio P.Z.Peixoto said:

my sincere apologies, because of the saturation of the photo, the ribbons and the Order of Saxe seem very strange, modern production, with the editing done on the photo it was much better.

It's totaly fine and I understand my photography is sucks LOL. That's why I post this on the forum for everyone to discuss.

Hi guys, just got this today. I noticed that the EK2 is not good compared to my other pieses (paint finish, ribbon, structure, details). However, I'm not sure about the remaining medals and orders, probably some ribbons look like weird. How do you guys think??

Here are some details