robert pierce

Thank you, Oliver. I still need the smaller UberGrosse. I really like the vintage patina on these crosses as well.

Best regards,

Robert

Hi Oliver!

Yes, the UberGrosse was from Frank. I'm anxiously awaiting its arrival. And, the EKI I bought has the pin like the 'round 3'. I just finished posting another thread on it, asking if anyone knew the maker. I really like the Wiedmann PB you posted. The round catchplate, hinge and number system really give away the Wiedmann. Very nice cross.

My best,

Robert

Here is where I really had to study hard, comparing both crosses for slight differences. The Wiedmann SB on the right...

detailing....

the reverse...

Hello everyone,

I've just received this EKI and wanted to ask for opinions from the forum members. I've been told it is by an 'unknown' maker. I can see that the pin assembly and numbers differ slightly from the Wiedmann EK, so I feel fairly confident in believing it is no Wiedmann. If anyone has any idea on who the maker might be I would certainly appreciate hearing from you. I hope you enjoy the photos.

Best regards,

Robert

You're exactly right, Oliver. I got crossed up on the EKI/EKII thing because of my excitement in finding a nice UberGrosse today. I can't think half straight when I finally find something I've been after for awhile. It takes me awhile to come back to earth. You are right, it was an EKI. I also found a very nice unknown maker EKI, which looks very close to a Wiedmann PB. So much so, it had me guessing until I compared it inhand with my Wiedmann SB. I thought it might have been a very early Wiedmann. Still, a very nice cross.

My best,

Robert

I think it was Carsten who just sold an L/55 SB without the disc. I found it for another member who had been trying to complete his set as well. They're out there, it just takes some eye strain to find them.

I'll keep looking in my travels,

Robert

I think the same as you, Oliver. We're on the same page. I believe many firms worked with Juncker to keep Juncker's production quotas met, and we find many variants which confuse things a lot. We as collectors try our hardest to piece every time table and variant together, but it just cannot be done with exactness - at least not yet. To find an L/12-marked cross which was not postwar marked is a treasure. I really like my early standard cross-hatched examples even though they're not marked because they have Juncker early frames and Juncker cores. I believe in them. But, the optimum cross is the L/12-marked cross for certain. I've enjoyed our discussion, and the sharing of information and ideas. I'm keeping my eyes open for an L/56 for you, Oliver. Happy hunting! BTW, when I have some extra time I'll resize some photos to post here.

My best,

Robert

Micha,

My, I've never seen an '11' on an Deumer EKI before. It's in wonderful condition also.

Robert

I hope this photo turns out OK. Now, from my understanding, here are two 2nd generation frames - W&L on the left, and Juncker on the right. I'll say this also; I don't know how many times Juncker 'reworked' their dies. Making new dies doesn't make sense at all. Instead, 'I think' (presume) Juncker used the same dies over and over, making corrections to worn dies. We all know that many firms had their hands in Juncker's business - W&L, K&Q, S&L to name (3). Were the Juncker EK dies salvaged from the bombing? I'll leave this not only for later, but also to someone who is doing much research in this area. It's only fair that I give this respect to him. I see some differences in your frame and the example(s) I show here. I wouldn't be alarmed at this. Like I say, I don't have any idea how many times Juncker reworked their dies.

My best,

Robert

Oliver,

It is my understanding that the cross-hatched frame evolved from 1914, and is then an early version. The coin silver frame and the hand-finished frosting also declares this. Juncker, after this hand-finished frosting, went to a chemical dipping (frosting) process. As said before, yours appears to be the reworked frame, a later war frame. As to when this change took place I personally do not know, but can find out for you. I look for the (3) die flaws on the cross-hatched frame. By reworking the dies Juncker was able to do away with these flaws, and start fresh again. I'll have to take some time resizing my photos for this forum, and post some photos here. Please be patient; my wife is going through surgery later on today, so it's going to be a very busy next few days.

My best,

Robert

Yes, exactly, Oliver. That's a very nice reworked Juncker frame. One of my earliest EKII's has the 60% coin silver frames, and the hand-applied finish. The arms are very dark with patina and the frosting is very nice. These are my favorite Junckers, the earliest, circa @ 1939.

Thank you Oliver!

Maybe we see one today on Weitze's update. I'd also like to find a Juncker EKI with 2nd frame. Everything I have so far has the cross-hatched frames.

Regards,

Robert

Yes, I remember that packeted set very well! Your e-mail hit Weitze about one minute before mine. My e-mails have to go by way of satellite, you know. I was hoping to get this set, Oliver. Those are some nice crosses, very nice. I have nearly (8) Juncker crosses, but all unmarked. A couple have the W&L cores, the rest Juncker. Some zinc, mostly iron cores. Thanks for sharing! And, I hope to hear from you some day, wanting to treat me to one.

Robert :cheers:

That's very nice collection Oliver!

I notice you have two L/12. Very special. I still need one, frame stamped. One thing I noticed about my L/56, like it's 1939 EKI counterpart, the outside points are very sharp, like pins. Something I have never seen on any other EK. I'll keep my eyes open for you. If I come across one I will contact you.

Best regards,

Robert

Oliver,

I'm looking for the last three you mentioned, excluding of course the L/56. Tough to find! I have doubles of others you may already have like L/11 and L/13.

Robert

Thanks for posting Rick,

I was beginning to wonder if anyone else had one for me to compare with. I might of known it would be you. It's good to see the exact maker mark on the ring as mine. I had heard from another member that he had only seen five other examples in his travels, and that my stamp was original. I'm glad, and glad you posted. Thank you, Rick.

Best regards,

Robert

IMO, typical light Zimmermann with the 10:00 ray flaw in the 'luxury' or 'Deschler' case. A very nice set.

Robert

rev

Yes, Deumer is hard to get ;-) But this Deumer is much more harder to get ;-)

Yes, it was. This I have had for the last 6 months, very nice condition...

Here is a packet for a Deumer Schinkel type, posted by a member of another forum...

Robert

This is not a Mayer, nor is it a Otto Schickle. A raptor? Maybe a variation of a raptor. I have not seen this spange before, but it does hold many features of a raptor fake. I'll leave this one alone for the time being because I am at a loss as to it's origin.

Robert

Although the cross looks to be an original, the background (also found on other items listed by the seller) tells me that it may come from Carsten Staegemeir (aka:"Der Afrikaheld"). If this be the case, be very careful and ask for some detailed shots of obverse/reverse before bidding.

Good observation John,

I would think the cross is original by appearance. The packet may be another matter. You should be able to find another non-magnetic Deumer from $275.00 - $300.00, and with a perfect ribbon ring. They aren't that hard to find, just takes time.

Robert

I need that variant for my Deumer collection, getting hard to find.

Robert