Motorhead

Here's another one I have to upgrade,but KMST marked iron crosses don't grow on trees.....Have a look at the catch,I think it won't survive heavy use.....

Micha

That was my first thought,but it's not matching.....different cromw,date and frame.....but I'm shure I've seen this variation without the hooks before.

Micha

And the reverse with the hooks.....

For all the friends of imperial iron-not a real beauty,but I think it's an interesting one....

Obverse

Bill,

I'm not shure this is copper plated-the loss of the black paint happened not yesterday or the week before-so if there would be really copper under it,shouldn't it show some greenish corrosion? I think it was posible blued before(but it wouldn't make sense-that would be no protection at all) or coated with something else....another kind of paint? Well,I'm open to anything.......Or it's just normal corrosion at the bare core?(This is my favourite theorie at the moment)...

But to get back to the question(D.or G.)-Gei?ler is writing in his book that Deumers where produced with that special pin and the marking "11"-Does somebody know where he get's his information from?

Micha

So no one else want to join this?

Well,that's a knock out......so this trace ended nowhere! But thank you for spending your time to make this pics(and you saved my money-I would have bought one just to look....).Da steh ich nun ich armer Thor,und bin so schlau als wie zuvor(Goethe's Faust)

I'm not shure that I've seen one original iron cross or something else in their auctions.So stay away,and even if there would be an original among the crab I would't buy it!

To find these crosses is not so difficult at Ebay,but with the original old ribbon,that's the bigger problem!

Micha

That's a good point-who put the "11" on the EK? When I remember right,there are war merrit crosses marked L/11 with the kind of pin we find at the "11" EKs.I would like to have one of these here to compare it with my "Deumer/Grossmann"

But the WMC have been never my point of interest-so I haven't a single one.....

It's absolutely possibly that "Deumer" sold a lot of parts to other companies-A friend of mine has got a '39 EK with one of these "sunburst screwbacks" in his collection-this EK shows the same "Deumer"core and the same frame as the "11" in mine and Bill's collection.So it doesn't matter what ever we will pull out of the dark,there will be always a"but".......I say "Deumer",but this isn't really new for you-but I also know that my(or all "Deumer" believers")theorie isn't waterproofed!

So at the moment I try to find one of these WMC's to have a closer look at the hinge/catch and the pin.......just to find matching toolmarks.Maybe it's wasted time,but this is one of the things that makes collecting iron crosses so interesting for me!

Micha

Gerd,

my main collecting field are the iron crosses! But I'm very interested in the RAOs-

indeed is the painting of the medaillon a little stange,and I'm shure this is the reason why it's not already sold!And I didn't find just one eagle matching to this one......I'm no expert,but I would do it like at the Skat-the first thought is the right thought!

Micha

Well,I've seen it,too-would it be possible that the medaillon was replaced or exchanged because of a damage? Or it might be a"later" piece from the 20ies?

I've got the big "Nimmergut" in my hands,but I didn't find anything that would match....

Micha

A beautyful Wagner&Sohn. This is what I call the 2nd model.There is another version with the mm in a little box. Good find

Micha

And the maker mark

Reverse

Nothing spectacular,but not so easy to find-a 1st class EK1 mm "JWS"

Obverse

Yes,another beautyful Meybauer ruined! From time to time these EKs appear at fleamarkets for totally crazy prices That's a shame......

Micha

George,are we shure that the Godet/Zimmermann EKs have really different makers?

They have got different markings,but they are nearly identical.So who made them? Or have both companies shared their tools? Please don't misunderstand me-of course they are two different companies,but I think one of them has bought the EKs from the other.

Do you agree with me that some of the parts(core and frame) from the "11" where made by "Deumer"? Look at post 15(the dots at the frame).Or do you say"close,but not matching"?Anyway-this is not a crusade for "Deumer".......

Micha

I hope it's so easy......OK,I belive it's a "Deumer",but what can we say for shure? The frame and the core are manufactured by "Deumer".And we know that there are KvK's made by "Deumer" with the same pin and hinge.But who has it put together? Who knows........ .Another funny thing-you all knows the EKs with these big"sunburst" screwback? I've seen one with the same core and frame like our "suspects" here....but this is another vstory!

Regards

Micha

And the date-this comparisation was made between my "11" and an "L/11" without the blob! The core with the blob has got atotally different frame....(I'm not shure that all of the "Deumers" are following this rule)

Another one

one more

Same tool,same kind of frame......

I accept your point,my friend-but let me finish my rocky horror pictureshow.....

Here we go....

Bill,I hope you don't mind that I use some scans of your EK....here are the 3 suspects!

Close enough? Here's the reverse....