oamotme

Lilo,

My comments are just assumption - I don't know the regulations for the award of the star - hoewever I feel it to be highly unlikley that he either received it or was entitled to it. In his autobiography I do not recall any mention being made of this award. You could infer that he was happy to wear the Liakat as the campaign for which it was awarded was not aganist the Allied Fiorces but the Senoussi in what is now Lybia.

Owain

Gentlemen,

If I recall correctly he wears the Liakat medal on the basis that he was decorated with this medal for his services in the Ottoman military with regard to the campaing against the Senoussi in the Western Desert. I would suspect that he never received the star nor in light of his services with the Hijaz military that he felt entitled to it. I believe the awards are still in the possession of his family.

Again if I recall correctly this photo was taken in London after he was awarded the GCVO during the state visit of King Faisal in 1933 - the King died in Swiitzerland on the way back to Iraq.

Owain

Ed,

I'll e-mail the image to you - perhaps you can tweak it for uploading?

Thanks,

Owain

Gentlemen,

The list comes from a photo taken some time between the award of the GCVO and his assassination in 1936. The image I have is too large and I will try and reduce it in order that it can be uploaded.

The Two Rivers is Military and not Civil.

The ASM clasp is fixed to the medal and not loose - see my recent article in the OMRS Journal - from my experience the SK clasp was affixed to the ASM - all other clasps I have seen have been loose - this is not 100% but an educated guess. (At a push it could be Barzan 1932......but unlikely that Jafaar would have been involved/present at this relatively small campaign.)

With regard to the Turkish (Ottoman) award the picture will allow the correct identifcation of this medal.

Regards,

Owain

Gentlemen,

In later life in full dress uniform his mounted group consisted of the following:

O. of Two Rivers (Iraq) with rosette.

O. of Independence (Hijaz) with rosette.

Active Service Medal (Iraq)with clasp - probably "Southern Kurdistan" .

Ma'an Medal (Hijaz).

Independence Medal (Hijaz).

War Medal (UK).

Victory Medal (UK) with MID Emblem.

Imtiaz or Liakat Medal (Turkey).

Plus

O. of St. Michael & St. George (UK) neck badge.

Royal Victorian Order (UK) breast star, sash & sash badge.

O. of Two Rivers (Iraq) breast star.

O. of Renaissance (Hijaz) breast star.

O. of Independence (Hijaz ) breast star.

Kind regards,

Owain

Thanks - so the date doesn't help in dating the photo, though my feeling is it is of the man whilst President.

This Order of the Revolution commemorates the traditional date of the uprising against the Federal Government and the British, being 14 October 1963. To my mind this is the senior award of the PDRY as it was this award which was presented in May 1990 by Ali Salim Al Beidh to Ali Abdullah Saleh on the proclamation of the Republic of Yemen - I have a photograph somewhere to be found. He reciprocated with the presentation of the Order of the Republic to Al Beidh. The award was also depicted on the upper right of the main newspaper of the PDRY "Al Thowra" or "The Revolution".

With regard to the manufacture of P.D.R.Y. awards in the Soviet Union I endeavoured to obtain details through correspondence with the late Igor Victorov-Orlov. Igor was able to confirm through colleagues having connections with the Moscow and Leningrad Mints that both received instructions from the Government of the P.D.R.Y. to manufacture some awards during the period 1973 to 1984. As to which particular awards these details were unavailable.

Regards, Owain.

Thanks Ed - two down three to go! When was the Soviet piece instituted? As it is in a prime position it may imply the picture was taken during a visit to Moscow. The Order of the Revolution was a Soviet manufactured award from the state mint in Moscow so in theory he could have got it whilst in exile.

Owain

Gentlemen,

I am currently working on a draft on the awards of the PDRY and have come across this image of Abdulfatah Ismail. The only award I am fairly sure of is that on the right of the photo being what I believe to be the senior state award of the PDRY - the Order of the Revolution. The awards on the left are too indistinct to even hazard a guess, however somebody may be able to identify the other breast badge and neck badge. He was very much in the Soviet camp thus they might well be Soviet awards. Following his deposition in 1980 he lived in exile in the USSR to return only to disappear in mysterious circumstances in 1986. I have no date for this picture but would suggest it is from his period of office as President. Of course the neck badge and sash my be simply the badges of office of the President.

All suggestions welcome!

Owain

Gentlemen,

On further inspection:

Badge & star both have the synthetic ruby star not enamel

Ther reverse of the badge has five flaming torches.

There is a small makers mark on the reverse of the star and on the suspension loop of the badge.

Based on the above information and the correspondence on this thread the set is pre-1963 when the reverse was amended to have six flaming torches.

Is there any way to further narrow the date by knowing the when the enamelled red star was changed to the synthetic ruby star - e.g. when the name of the order was chaged in 1961?

..and by the way I have negotiated down to $980 and I will be collecting the set tomorrow. Thanks for your invaluable advice - it is much appreciated.

Kind regard,

Owain - in a hot Riyadh - yesterday the temperature reache 46C!

Gentlemen,

I detail below a translation I obtained of the Arabic Laws concerning this award and which was used alomg with other translations as the basis for my JOMSA article on the awards of the Kingdom of Iraq - published inthe January/february 2006 issue. I hope this helps.

Owain

Iraq Child Welfare Medal

Iraq Government Gazette No.17, 27 April 1941

182. IRAQ CHILD WELFARE MEDAL LAW NO. 21 OF 1941

With the approval of the Senate and Chamber of Deputies, I hereby order the promulgation of the following Law:-

Article 1

A medal to be called ?Child welfare Medal? shall be created. It shall be of three kinds (1) Gold, (2) Silver, and (3) Copper. The designs, colour of ribbons, and the manner of earning and wearing shall be defined by regulation.

Article 2

The medal may be awarded by Royal Irada in the proposal of the Minister of Social Affairs.

Article 3

Iraqis awarded the Gold or Silver kinds of this medal shall pay a fee to be determined by regulation provided that such fee shall not exceed three dinars.

Article 4

This Law shall come into force from the date of its publication in the Official Gazette.

Article 6

The Minister of Social Affairs is charged with execution of this Law.

Made at Baghdad this 14th day of Safar, 1360, and the 12th day of March, 1941.

ABDULILAH

TAHA AL HASHMI HAMDI AL PACHACHI

Prime Minister and Minister of Social Affairs

Ag. Minister of Defence

(Published in the Waqayi? al ?Iraqiya No. 1888 of 22-3-41)

----0000----

Iraq Government Gazette No.40, 5 October 1941

615. CHILD WELFARE MEDAL REGULATION NO. 44 OF 1941

After perusal of Article 1 of the Iraq Child Welfare Medal Law No.21 of 1941, pursuant to the proposal of the Minister of Social Affairs and with the approval of the Council of Ministers, I hereby order the promulgation of the following Regulation:-

Article 1

The Medal in its three classes shall be composed of a seven-pointed star of one millimetre thickness and a diameter (the circle passing around the apex of the points) of four centimetres. Directly underneath the top point there shall be engraved an enamel seven-pointed star in red and inside it an enamel seven-pointed star in white. There shall be inscribed under this star the words ?Iraq Child Welfare Medal? in the form of an ellipse semi-circle. Beneath these words there shall be engraved in red enamelled figures the year in which the medal was created and beneath these figures there shall be engraved two ears of corn intersecting one another.

The medal shall be suspended by a red and white ribbon. The white will be one third of the total width and shall be in the centre with equal widths of red on either side. The ribbon shall be threaded through a rectangular strip of the same metal six centimetres long and three and a half centimetres wide which shall be attached to the apex (of the medal) by a small link.

Article 2

The medal in its three classes shall be worn on the left side of the wearer?s chest.

Article 3

The owner of the medal may wear it on the occasion of formal and public holidays and ceremonies.

Article 4

This medal is awarded on the proposal of the Minister of Social Affairs following recommendation of the Administrative Authority of the General Headquarters of the Iraq Child Welfare Society to persons rendering a service beneficial to the aims of the Iraq Child Welfare Society, and it is conditional when awarding the golden class thereof that the service should be a distinguished and specific one.

Article 5

There shall be recovered from those who are awarded the medal a fee of I.D 2/- fro the golden class and I.D.1/- for the silver class.

Article 6

This Regulation shall come into force from the date of its publication in the Official Gazette.

Article 7

The Minister of Social Affairs is charged with execution of this Law.

Made at Baghdad this 26th day of Rajab, 1360, and the 12th day of August, 1941.

ABDULILAH

JAMIL AL MADFA?I ALI JAWDAT AL AYOUBI

Prime Minister Minister of Foreign Affairs

MUSTAFA AL ?UMARI IBRAHIM KAMAL

Minister of Interior Minister of Finance &

Ag. Minister of Justice

NADHAF AL SHAWI JALAL BABAN

Minister of Defence Minister of Coms. & Works

NASRAT AL FARISI MUHAMMAD RIDAH AL SHIBIBI

Minister of Economics Minister of Education

JA?FAR HAMANDI

Minister of Social Affairs

(Published in the Waqayi? al ?Iraqiya No. ?? of ??-41)

----0000----

Iraq Government Gazette No.46, 14 November 1954

1702. REGULATION No.5 of 1952 AMENDING THE CHILD WELFARE MEDAL REGULATION NO. 44 OF 1941

After perusal of Article 1 of the Iraq Child Welfare Medal Law No.21 of 1941, pursuant to the proposal of the Minister of Social Affairs and with the approval of the Council of Ministers, I hereby order the promulgation of the following Regulation:-

Article 1

Para (20 of Article I of the Child Welfare Medal Regulation No.44 of 1941 shall be deleted and substituted by the following:-

The medal shall be suspended by a red ribbon with a white stripe, provided that the white stripe shall make up one third of the total width of the ribbon, and the other white stripe shall make up one third of the total width of the ribbon, and the other two stripes, on either side, shall make up the other two thirds. The ribbon shall be threaded through a little ring fixed to the upper point of the seven-pointed star.

Article 2

This Regulation shall come into force from the date of its publication in the Official Gazette.

Article 3

The Minister of Social Affairs is charged with execution of this Regulation.

Made at Baghdad this 18th day of Rabi? al-Thani, 1371, and the 15th day of January, 1952.

ABDULILAH

NOURI AL-SA?ID MUSTAFA AL-UMARI

Prime Minister Minister without Portfolio

OMAR NADHMI MOHAMMED HASSN KUBBA

Minister of Interior Minister without Portfolio

MAJED MUSTAFA SHAKIR AL-WADI

Minister of Social Affairs Minister of Defence and

Act. Minister for foreign Affairs

JAMIL ABDULWAHAB DHIA? JA?AFAR

Minister of Justice Minister of Coms. & Works &

Act. Minister of Finance

KHALIL KANNA ABDULMAJID MAHMOUD

Minister of Education Minister of Economics

(Published in the Waqayi? al ?Iraqiya No. 3062 of 11/2/1952)

----0000----

I picked up a similar piece in the Khan El Khalili in Cairo some years ago - slightly less worn than yours but at least you have the ribbon!

Owain

Thanks Anatoly. It seems I have the correct suspension but the wrong ribbon and of course getting some ribbon will be a challenge!

Owain

I also attach image of the obverse of the Dunav Bridge Medal. I think the suspension is correct but not sure. The ribbon is incorrect and I believe is the Soviet Liberation of Belgrade ribbon. The reverse of the 'nut' has * E (Reversed). H. b. * and KOVNICA in cyrillic script.

Owain

As requested by Explorer I attach image of Solvenia Partisan Medal - reverse is blank other than the number 2895.

Owain

Gentlemen,

Further to my cataloguing of my long forgotten Yugoslav collection - I detail below what I have. All of these were purchased during 1990-4 as a side line to my main focus on Arab awards and indeed were collecting dust. Prices where noted are in Canadian dollars when the C$ was substantially weaker than it is now. I have no idea what they are worth now but I suspect that as the bulk of these awards are commonplace that an insurance value would be most modest.

Thanks for your interest - this particular site on the GMIC is quite a revelation - I have a lot to do to get up to speed on these awards - perhaps I should stick with Arabia!

Kind regards,

Owain

(Listing originally posted as a spreashseet and subsequently amended)

Awards of the Republic of Yugoslavia Award Grade / Type Cost ManufactureRibbon, etc.

Order of Bravery 1st Type (No.5651) C$116 Soviet issue Pentangular ribbon & 2nd Type (No.11359) C$36 Pentangular ribbon

Partisan Decoration1st Type C$86 Screwback with washer & 2nd Type (No.16537) C$151 IKOM Zagreb Screwback

Order of the Partisan Star (Number engraved/scratched) 3rd Class (No.7183) STOLPNJE Screwback - bronze & lettering in cyrrillic script - possibly incorrect screw

Order of National Merit 3rd Class (No.80345) IKOM Zagreb Screwback

Order of Brotherhood & Unity 2nd Class (No.57656) IKOM Zagreb Screwback - 5 flames

Order of Labour (Work) 1st Class (No.1217) C$75 IKOM Zagreb Screwback - 2 screws & 2nd Class ZNB-KOVNICA Pin back & 3rd Class ZNB-KOVNICA Pin back

Order of the People's Army 3rd Class Pin back

Order of Military Merit 3rd Class Pin back

Medal of Bravery 1st Type C$91 Soviet issue Pentangular ribbon & 2nd Type C$27 Pentangular ribbon

Medal of National Merit Bronze C$12 Pentangular ribbon

Medal of Labour (Work) Bronze C$25 Pentangular ribbon

Medal of Military Merit Bronze C$20 Triangular ribbon

Medal of Distinguished Service Bronze C$12 Triangular ribbon

1941-45 War Medal Silvered Small horizontal ribbon

1951 10th Army Anniversary Bnze/Gilt C$31 Triangular ribbon

1961 20th Army Anniversary Bnze/Gilt C$11 Triangular ribbon

1971 30th Army Anniversary Bnze/Gilt C$21 Triangular ribbon

1981 40th Army Anniversary Bnze/Gilt C$15 Triangular ribbon

1991 50th Army Anniversary Bnze/Gilt C$31 Triangular ribbon

Reservists Medal Bronze C$16 No ribbon

1975 30th Anniversary of 1945 Victory Bronze C$10 Triangular ribbon

1945-6 Dunav Bridge Medal Bronze/gilt C$201 Screwback to vertical ribbon (green-black-green possibly incorrect ribbon) - screwback lettering in cyrillic script

Marksman / Shooting Medal Gilt Triangular ribbon

Pohoroja Partisan Hospital Medal Enamel brooch ribbon

Yugoslavia Serbia Red Cross 1st Class Gilt ZIN-KOVNICA Horizontal brooch susp. & 2nd Class Silvered ZIN-KOVNICA Horizontal brooch susp.

Yugoslavia Slovenia Partisan Medal Bronze (No.2895) Horizontal brooch susp.

Yugoslavia 1988 Serbia 70th Anniv. of WW1Gilt Triangular ribbon

Gentlemen,

Many thanks indeed - I take up this offer and as is traditional here in Arabia I willl try and negotiate a discount!

I have a small Yugoslav collection which I have long left alone - I have been in Saudi since 1989 and thus my focus has been on Arab awards. I do have though a Dunav Bridge Medal and the 1945 War Medal. I will see what esle I have and list them for you.

Again thank you.

Owain (ONSA & OMRS)

Gentlemen,

I have been offered, here in Riyadh, a 2nd class set (no ribbon or case but both pieces in excellent condition) - awarded to a Saudi - probably in the 1960's - I have already purchased some of his Arab awards. The set is the ruby version - I cannot recall the flame numbers. The asking price is SR3,800 (US$1,013) - is this a fair price?

Kind regards,

Owain Raw-Rees

P.S. On the above proof sheets - check the spelling of breast as in Breast star - not 'brest' and reverse not 'avers'

The King Abdulad

If you look carefully Abdullah is wearing his father's medals! There is no way that he could have been an active partcipant in the 1948 War, the battle of Karama in 1967 or the 1973 Ramadan War!

Regards,

Owain

Mi contribution with the pictures of the King Hussein and Abdulad

The King's Jrodainan ribbons are, I think, as follows:

Order (collar) of Al Hussain, Order of Renaissance, Hashemite Star, Military Gallantry, Order of the Star, Order of Independence, Medal of Honour, Battle of Karama 1967 Medal, Ramadan War 1973 Medal and Silver Jubilee 1977 Medal - thereafter foriegn awards.

Regards,

Owain

The Spink auction last Thursday had a 2nd class DRS issue by Spink - went for GBP480 - see lot 695 for pictures.

Owain

From the November 1993 Spink Numismatic Circular:

SDF DSM - silver unamed. Rare. Near EF GBP375.

SDF Native Officer's Decoration, silver, edge engraved with Arabic inscription. Scarce. Good VF GBP150.

SDF LS&GC, bronze, edge engraved with Arabic inscription. Scarce. Good VF GBP100.

SDF GSM, 1933, silver. EF GBP200.

An example of the SDF LSGC went for about GBP700 (+hammer) in the September 2007 DNW auction! Ouch!

Owain

With regard to the posted images the award illustrated in the 1980 Spink Protocol publication is with enamelled flags but to confuse matters the award illustrated by Spink has the narrow 'spikes' of the unenamelled example shown by Sabrigade. Also their 'bird' head faces left, as one looks at it, as it does with all DRS insignia.

As to the terms of the award, I had thought to provide a summary, but I quote if full from the 1974 Act:

"This Order shall be awarded to citizens, whether military or civilian, who approach the May Revolution with complete and untainted allegiance to its principles and objectives. For dedictaing their efforts in thought and deed, in mobilizing their powers and capabilities in complete preparation for building, construction and in maintenance of the unity of the homeland, in fighting off all tyrannies in trust of the unity of object, in maintenance of unity of the column and in abiding by the Charter of its national work, emanating from its political organisation." Who writes this stuff?

Concerning Spink I was told some years ago that the reason that there were a number of Sudan awards available in the UK market was that the Sudan Government had not paid their dues in full to Spink and thus awards were retained and when Spink closed/sold off thier manufacturing arm, located in Raynes Park, a number of awards from various nations came onto the market. Before the relocation of Spink from St. James's and the departure of various staff to other companies I found these staff to be most helpful, however as with most companies you will need to build up a relationship with individuals.

Kind regards from a sand storm swept Riyadh,

Owain

Owain

Try,

http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/dept/coins...on/index13.html

The Watson Collection is quite a find - this piece also has a concave reverse.

Owain

Over the past few years a number have been for sale in the London DNW auctions - all make prices in excess of $1,000. I seem to recall that the one on display at the Mahdi's museum in Omdurman is a gilded example (there is one also at the Ftizwilliam Museum in Cambridge) and had been awarded to the Bishop of Khartoum but my memory is vague on this.... I believe that the inscription - not clear on this example reads to the effect "Defence of Khartoum" and the year - but I would need to check my notes.

Owain

The Arabic on the collar badge, sash badge and breast badge appears to read "Al Hussain Bin Abdullah", and the three links read, right to left "The Collar of Al Hussain Bin AlI"

Regards,

Owain