Erich

The center plate looks like one of the fantasy pieces that popped up in the 90s--they were fairly well painted onto original mess china (which at the time you could barely give away). There were numerous motifs--mostly NSDAP organizational, RPT, etc. 

I know this is an old post, but possibly still of interest.

Erich

SA Group Westmark, Standarte 52 was garrisoned in Koblenz.

Erich

Thanks for the additional information. Due to the name of the book series, I'd hoped it would cover primarily NS personalities, but I do appreciate your input!

Erich

I was wondering about this new Hüsken book, not having had a chance to look through it. Does it have multiple examples of an individual's signature or only one per person? And does it get into some of the more obscure NS personalities or just the more famous individuals?

Erich

That's true, but the "16L" unit in Munich is the only one I'm aware of that used the latin "L". I believe the Standarte was considered an elite one. A number of my Blood Orders were to men who became members of the Munich "16L" Standarte.

Erich

To the contrary, his tailor told him he looked thinner in it.

Erich

The type 1 BO medals are fairly rare, while the case is rarer, and the early document is rarer still! I know of only 1 document for sale without its medal, and one medal/document set that may or may not be sold already.

Nice to find, although the type 1 Ausweis is also rare and hard to find with the medal.

Erich

Just happened upon this thread--great pieces! For some reason (probably the rarity of most of them) the Gau badges have never been overly popular with collectors--pre internet they were nearly impossible to find. Stan, that Baden with the 1923 bar is amazing! I can't remember having seen one before.

Erich

Do you mean you've found a name:number list for the 2nd issue Blood Orders? Patzwall lists the known names with random known numbers of the 2nd issue types but states there were likely more awarded.

An accurate listing of the type 2/awards over serial nr. 1500 would certainly be a welcome addition!

Erich

It looked good to me before, and now it looks even better!

Erich

Erich, I agree with you--The 1st patterns are identical, 2nd patterns though may differ slightly as there were initially at least 2 sets of dies prior to the introduction of the late set (let's say type 2a (like type 1), 2b (very much like type 1 but w/o flaw), 2c (the late type - ray doesn't touch H). I have seen a late type that had an impossibly high number so there was a problem with that one, and raised doubts. I've only seen 3 or 4 examples of these 2c types, and never with a well documented history, but they appear to be a legitimate variant.

Erich

I'll see if I have any on file and attach them if I do. Otherwise I'll try to take some soon.

Erich

I've never seen this one before, but I have one that was a souvenir of the N?rnberg Rally--spoon collecting was popular from the late 1800s, so it makes sense!

Erich

Very nice! I have the only other example I've ever seen of the Feldherrnhalle Mahnmal identical to yours. I really like the SA Reiter --I've never seen that one before!

Erich

Tremendous find! I've had my share of luck over the years but never found a Blood Order out of the proverbial woodwork. I would say you're also very lucky that it was still there when you returned--usually you get only one chance at a deal like this! Would it be possible for you to post a close up photo of the reverse word 'Ihr' showing the rays? Both the type 1 and type 2 have a ray touching the base of the H, but this doesn't appear to in the photos posted. There were at least 2 and possibly 3 producers of the type 2 it's thought, with some very minute detail differences. The examples made by the possible 3rd producer don't seem to display some of the accepted earmarks of the other 2.

Erich

I would agree that it's impossible to make a definitive judgement based on photos alone, but aside from the odd coloration, the medal looks correct. It's also possible that the discoloration is actually silver tarnish and the because of the lighting or other photographic effect, it's looking browner rather than purple? Can you get the dimensions and weight? And with the damage to the front, the price would be affected.

Is it laying on a COA?

Erich

Looks like a good one to me from the photos.

Erich

A better book is the old Ballentine series' volume 'The Night of the Long Knives' by Nikolai Tolstoy. He goes into much more detail regarding the political and military situations and why R?hm had to be removed.

Erich

I stand (actually sit) corrected. That's what I get for being too lazy to look it up!

Erich

He's a technical/engineering officer.

Erich

In 40 years of collecting, the majority of the time SA, that is without a doubt the best SA helmet I've seen!

Erich

This guy is Marine SA, not NSKK. Nice photo!

Erich

Thanks for posting the photos. I can tell the Marine NSKK illustration pictures the gold fitted daggers, but are the Marine SA wearing black daggers or dark brown? They look black in this illustration, but the Org Books show them as standard brown SA's, as does the von Eelking book, the Cord von Einem books, the Sturm cigarette album, etc. Those books not including illustrations but mentioning the MSA uniform do not indicate a dagger different than the standard. Also, I've owned numerous dagger catalogues, examined many others, as well as period RZM advertisements, magazine and newspaper ads, etc. and none mention anything other than the standard SA dagger.

Michael,

Good question. The gold badges, if the finish is present, have a very brilliant gold finish--not at all like polished brass, for example, but more like the golden tone of a Naval badge or gold party badge. The steel, later examples, if the finish is removed, will look like a possible silver piece. The silver finish, though, is also unmistakable as it is usually a bright but matte silver color.

Erich

These are intended for the inexperienced and uninformed. Anyone who has studied 3rd Reich insignia would recognise the poor quality workmanship of these pieces. Very interesting to see what is out there.

Bob,

Agreed! I believe Clyde Davis included some similar fakes in his article about Stabshef tabs in the Military Advisor.

Erich