PKeating

http://www.anacr.com/

The Association Nationale des Anciens Combattants de la R?sistance (ANACR) was founded in March 1945 by members of the Gaullist FFI (Forces fran?aises de l'int?rieur) and the predominantly Communist FTP (Franc-tireurs partisans), sometimes known as France-tireurs partisans communistes or France-tireurs partisans fran?aise, depending on how radical a given unit's politics were. The ANACR name was adopted in 1952. This veterans' organisation was born of an attempt to unite the various factions, which remained splintered during and after the war, despite the best efforts of some Resistance leaders. The Gaullists have sometimes been accused of airbrushing the FTP and other non-FFI groups out of the picture and there is perhaps some truth in the allegations levelled by FTP veterans. For instance, it is very hard to find published information on the so-called Battle of Saint-Denis, when FTP units engaged heavily armed German convoys in that northern Parisian suburb in August 1944. In the fierce house-to-house fighting, which involved Fallschirmj?ger and armoured units, the centre of Saint-Denis - around the crossroads of the Route Nationale 1, a main withdrawal route for German units retreating from the Paris area and the Seine and Oise valleys - was flattened and resembled Stalingrad or Grozny. Old buildings are rare in the area. Yet nobody speaks of it, to the chagrin of FTP veterans I know who fought there. I also interviewed a former German paratrooper who met the FTP in Saint-Denis and on the edges of the Montmorency Forest and he said they were formidable fighters. Many were veterans of Spain, of the L?gion (French bad boys who pretended to be Belgians to get in!) and of the War of 1939-1940. Anyway, get in touch with the ANACR. Let me know if you need any help with the language.

PK

Hmmmmmmm...

Indeed. PKA numbering appears to have been adopted in 1944 although it could have been a bit earlier. LDO numbering came in in 1941. I think Pieter does have one of these sets but I don't know whether it's the set with the RK and two 1939 Bars or one of the others. Never asked him.

PK

Zimmermann's can also be found with this style of loop making it slighly confusing. Would that not suggest that Godet was supplying the parts?

As far as I concerned, Zimmermann supplied the components and that probably included the riband loop. The Zimmermann RK I had - which now lives with Pieter Verbruggen - had the ovaloid loop with L/52 and 900 marks. The cross was unmarked.

While it's clear the two used the same parts, has it been documented anywhere who was the supplier? I go with Zimmerman but am interested to know if it has been fully proven.

It's impossible to prove fully but I think the fact that the high end fake Ritterkreuze supplied by the Godet firm to various high end dealers in the 1960s and 1970s look nothing like known original Zimmermann/Godet crosses suggests that Zimmermann held the dies and tooling.

I often wonder why so few Zimmermann/Godet RK exist.

If Godet had been the maker from 1939 to 1945, there would be as many Zimmermann/Godet RK out there as Steinhauer & L?ck RK. Had the tooling suvived the war, like the S&L and Klein & Quenzer tooling, Frau Klietmann would used it as she used Godet's other tooling.

This is why I am convinced that the crosses were made by Zimmermann. It could be that Godet bought in the components and assembled them but I would want to see a known Godet cross up close before accepting this as probable rather than possible.

The Zimmermann RK I have owned or examined were all of a high standard in terms in manufacturing and finish quality, with the exception of the several examples that came to light a while ago, all of which were fire-damaged and a couple of which were "restored".

In more than thirty years, nobody has ever been able to show me an RK identifiable as a Godet cross...as opposed to a Zimmermann cross. Old photographs from Dr Klietmann's archives of the cased sets presented by Hitler to various high-ranking officers after the 1940 campaigns show RK that are obviously of the Zimmermann/Godet type, complete with the characteristic ovaloid riband loops.

It is reasonable to presume that these sets were supplied to the PKA by Godet, given the appearance of the cases. However, I have never examined a known, original cased set of this nature personally, so I do not know if the cases or the lower grade awards bore any Godet trademarks.

PK

But here's an indisputably untouched Bacqueville E-Boat Badge with a nice age patina, pictured with a Schwerin 1st pattern badge and an Adolf Scholtz 2nd pattern badge.

PK

This finish looks new but appears to be original. If you looks at the previous two badges, you can see that someone appears to have painted the wreaths carelessly. I suppose it was the dealer's assistant, trying to finish dozens of badges before going home!

PK

Exactly! But one of the problems is that the guys who found them or who brokered them to dealers in Paris and London seem to have repainted a lot of the badges with the kind of gold paint used on picture frames.

PK

The standard of finish of the Zimmermann crosses was quite high.

PK

They didn't make one. Nor did they make the Minesweeper Badge. They made the following:

Destroyer Badge

High Seas Fleet Badge

Auxiliary Cruiser Badge

U-Boat Badge

E-Boat Badge

Coastal Artillery Badge

They also produced buttons, summer tunic eagles and other bits and pieces.

PK

It's absolutely original.

PK

More than likely... The crosses in the special multiple sets given out after the campaigns of 1939 and 1940 were Godets. They also used the Imperial-style ovaloid ribbon loop.

PK

To the novices, like me, does that mean that an identifiable Zimmerman or Godet is more likely to be genuine than the S & L, Juncker, etc?? genuine question

Alex

Yes, indeed it is, Alex. However, you're fairly safe with Juncker crosses too because the factory was bombed to smithereens in December 1944 and there is nothing to suggest that the dies survived to be put to use after the war. Nothing wrong with being a novice or with asking valid questions like this! We were all novices once...

PK

If the cross is not identical to the Zimmermann displayed here then forget about it. Godet and Zimmermann had a reciprocal agreement for Iron Cross manufacture and it is fairly safe to assume that Zimmermann produced the RK and EK1 supplied by Godet to the PKA. Had Godet produced these crosses, they would be very common today because of the reuse of Godet tooling and dies in the 1960s and 1970s.

PK

Interesting. Josef Bucher - SS-Nr 276 204 - is listed elsewhere as an SS-Unterscharf?hrer with 3./SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Rgt 3

Born 20.11.1917 in Bayrischzell

Died 10.5.1945

SS-Pz.Gr.AuE.Btl.2 in April 1945 as SS-Hauptsturmf?hrer

1./SS-Panzergrenadier-Rgt 5 in August 1944 as SS-Hstuf und Chef

10./SS-Panzergrenadier-Rgt 3 in February 1943 as SS-Ustuf (presumably promoted to SS-Ostuf there)

4./SS-Infanterie-Rgt 7 in November 1941 as SS-Ustuf

3./SS-Panzergrenadier-Rgt 3* in September 1939 as SS-Unterscharf?hrer

I don't think the SS-VT had any panzergrenadier units in 1939 and he was commissioned in 1936 so perhaps this entry is an error due to postwar administration.

PK

You won't usually get a reply from Arthus Bertrand in the rue de Rennes other than to refer you to their retail outlets. Their principal retail point for ODM and accessories is

6 Place Saint Germain des Pr?s,

75006 Paris

Tel.: 33 (0) 1 49 54 72 10

Opening hours:

Mon. 11 a.m.-7 p.m. and

Tue. ? Sat. 10.15 a.m.-7 p.m.

shopinfo@arthus-bertrand.fr

More precisely, the ODM department can be contacted at decorations@arthus-bertrand.fr or by phone on +33 (0)1 6993 6993

There are people there who speak pretty good English. Don't mention that it's for a Vichy cross...

Hope this helps,

Paddy

I confirm Hendrik's report. I can walk across the road and buy an ordinary LdG (chevalier) in good condition for ?50-60.00 and a Maroc medal with Casablanca clasp for ?40-50.00.

PK

Just saw this. Very glad to see you back, Bob! Got a nasty shock when I read Paul's post at the head of this topic.

PK

As a fellow Dub, albeit ex-pat, it is great to see Ireland's small but active community of students, historians and collectors "coming out of the woodwork". Welcome Paul! And a very interesting post too! Small differences in external dimensions and weight can often be attributed to hand-finishing, even in pieces emanating from the same mint or medallist, particularly back then. I think the problem with this piece was its marked difference in size, suggesting a casting from an original. I am sure that there are plenty of pikeys in Ireland with the requisite skills to make convincing cast fakes for people who have never seen an original example of this very, very rare medal.

PK

Stunning! I did look at a couple of DSC listings when composing my response and my eyes lingered on Baer, I must say. There again, this wonderful tunic bears Captain's bars. Did Baer make Captain? I suppose he might have been upshifted a rank when he left the service.

I looked at Everett Cook too. However, Cook was born in Indiana but his residence is given as Memphis, Tennessee. Mind you, he was only 24 in 1918 and his family must have been in Indiana so his home town after the war could be irrelevant. He served with the 91st Aero Squadron and got the DSC for "...extraordinary heroism in action near Damvillers, France, September 26, 1918. While on a photographic mission in the vicinity of Damvillers which necessitated a penetration of 20 kilometers within the enemy lines, Captain Cook was attacked by seven enemy pursuit planes, and his plane was riddled with bullets. In spite of the attack he continued on his mission, turning only for our lines when his observer had secured photographs of great military value. In the combat one enemy aircraft was destroyed."

The uniform appears to have been worn in the 1930s if the Croix du Combattant ribbon is any indication. Other Indiana USAS DSC winners include:

1st Lt Edward Harold Greist, 3d Observation Group, for actions on 1.11.1918.

2nd Lt John W Jordan, 88th Aero Squadron (11.8.1918).

1st Lt George R Nixon, who was a balloonist.

1st Lt Karl Joseph Schoen, 139th Aero Squadron (10.10.1918)

Other USAS DSC winners from Indiana include: Harvey Weir Cook, Kenneth Smith Clapp, George C. Carroll, Glen A. Preston, George E. Goldthwaite, Kenneth H. Holden, Burdette S. Wright and Thomas G. Cassady.

Capt Harvey Weir Cook joined the USAS in 1917 and served with the 94th Aero Squadron, ending the war with seven victories, including four balloons. Many of the 94th's pilots had come through the Lafayette Flying Circus system. Was Cook breveted by the French or the Americans? He was killed as a Lieutenant-Colonel when his P39 Airacobra crashed in New Caledonia in WW2.

2nd Lt Clapp served with 27th Aero Squadron, 1st Pursuit Group.

1st Lt Carroll was a balloonist.

2nd Lt Preston was an artillery officer on attachment to 99th Aero Squadron as an Observer. Unlikely.

1st Lt Goldthwaite served as a pilot with 24th Observation Squadron. Now, he is listed with one aerial victory on 5.11.1918. This would tie in with the single palm.

1st Lt Holden served with 12th Aero Squadron and originally came from Michigan but lived in Indiana.

1st Lt Wright was an Observer with 12th Aero Squadron. He was a Vice-President amd General Manager of the Airplane Division of the Curtiss-Wright Corporation in the 1930s and during WW2. The company had a contract to supply a hundred P40B fighters to the French Air Force just before WW2. The Free French air force flew Curtiss-Wright CW-21 planes. Could Burdette Wright have been promoted to Officier de la L?gion d'Honneur through this connection?

1st Lt Cassady served with 28th Aero Squadron.

Anyway, food for thought, perhaps.

PK

The L?gion d'Honneur would have been bestowed on a foreign pilot of singular distinction who would normally, though not necessarily, have received a valour award of some kind from his own government. However, it could also have been bestowed upon an American who served with the French armed forces and who never received an American award. This would suggest the Escadrille Lafayette, formed on 16.4.1916 and disbanded on 18.2.1918. It shouldn't be too hard to find any Indiana-born members as just thirty-eight pilots served in the squadron. Nine of them were killed in action, narrowing it down to under thirty.

There again, 209 Americans received French pilots' brevets through the Lafayette Flying Corps training programme, of whom around 180 actually flew combat missions with French squadrons prior to America's entry into the war. Many continued serving with French squadrons despite pressure to transfer to the newly formed US Air Service. Sixty-five of the Lafayette Flying Corps "graduates" were killed in action, so you have around 115 possibles. Just thirteen of them were recognised as aces, which narrows it down a bit more as your man received the Croix de Guerre avec Palme, which means that he was mentioned somewhere in an Army level dispatch.

Of course, there are also the flyers of the 49th, 94th and 95th Aero Squadrons, as well as some of the other flying units created before the cessation of hostilities. But this man would appear to have flown in a French unit or a unit under French command. This might explain why he got the Croix du Combattant years later. It is unusual but not unheard-of for foreigners to receive the Croix du Combattant, particularly when they have served in a French unit or a unit under French command. A friend of mine, Peter Churchill, served with No4 Commando in 1944/45 and as this was essentially an FFL unit, he received a chestful of French medals and awards, including the 1939-1945 Croix du Combattant, along with his British campaign medals.

Regarding his L?gion d'Honneur, I would suggest that he was promoted to Officer within the order some years after the war. To pass to Officier, one must first be named Chevalier. Eddie Rickenbacker was appointed Chevalier de la L?gion d'Honneur. So I imagine that your man ended WW1 as a Chevalier. It usually takes a minimum of five years or so of dogged service or usefulness to the state or one's profession - whatever - to climb a grade. So, given that your man received a Croix du Combattant in the 1930s, perhaps we could work on the assumption that he maintained links of some kind with France and was promoted to Officier de la L?gion d'Honneur some years after the Great War.

This probably brings you no closer to your goal and maybe I'm teaching you to suck eggs, as it were, but it should at least provide you with a starting point. You could try getting in touch with Charles Woolley, who wrote Echoes of Eagles, with Bill Crawford, about the 95th Aero Squadron - The Kicking Mules - and whose father flew with the 95th. If you don't have any means of doing so, drop me an e-mail and I'll put you in touch with Charlie. If he cannot turn up a 95th Aero Squadron candidate - here's a squadron roster: http://www.us95th.org/history_roster.html[/url - then he might be able to pass you onto someone who could help you. After all, he spent forty years researching the history of American pilots on France in WW1!

Hope this helps in some way.

PK

That's absolutely what it says, Tony. This chap received what is commonly known as a Quartermaster's Commission.

PK

Thanks, Simon!

PK

I'll have to visit the monument to the 1er DBCCP men the next time I'm in Meucon. I wonder where exactly it is.

Au cours de la guerre d'Indochine les 1er 2e, 3e ,4e,5e,6e,7e et 8e BCCP vont ainsi se succ?der l?-bas, certains d'entre eux effectuant plusieurss?jours apr?s remise sur pied en m?tropole ? l'issue de chacun d'eux. Plus tard sera inaugur?e ? Meucon, une st?le ? la m?moire des 3.600 parachutistes de la 1er demi-brigade coloniale de commandos parachutistes tu?s ? l'ennemi en Indochine de 1946 ? 1954.

PK

Looking forward to seeing this WP. The scanner will "change your life"! I have scanned many of my documents and paybooks and can enjoy looking through the files of high res repros while the sometimes fragile originals rest in the safe. Means other people can look at them too, for research and reference purposes without compromising the old paper.

PK

One similar British insider humour gag comes to mind in the case of a airlanding brigade in the 1960s whose flash was identical to the normal maroon and blue Pegasus airborne forces flash but with a yellow Pegasus on a blue background. It was known as the "Yellow Donkey". Oddly enough, I landed at Meucon recently when my pal and I flew his 1955 Cessna to Brittany. I didn't know it was an airborne training establishment. Can the Brevet be attributed to an soldier through the issue number?

PK