lilo

Hello All, I wonder if anyone can help me in correctly identifying what is the Ottoman medal the Italian General of the CARABINIERI, Cosma MANERA (1876-1958), received in 1908. In his papers it is stated that he received the (testually) : - Ottoman Medal 'SEGA KAT' (for Valour) 1908. I tried to identify what exactly was the Ottoman medal received by General Manera but till now have found nothing. Can you please tell me what is this medal ? If you are able to exactly identify this medal, I please you to also let me know which is the correct ribbon (i.e. which are the colours) from which it is suspended. (better if possible - it should be to post a colour photo). Many Thanks in advance for your help Best Regards Lilo

Hello All, I know that from its institution to the present time, different (in colours) ribbons were used for the Chile, Order of Merit. The current ribbon is full blue colour. I also know that the 1st type of ribbon used for the Order in question when it was instituted (i.e. 1910), had three colours : blue / red / white. That I have not still fully understood is what is it the correct sequence of these 3 colours : Is it the blue, white, red (i.e. the 'white' in the centre) ? or Is it the blue, red, white (i.e. the 'red' in the centre) ? I'm asking this because in the various German / British groups of the period (i.e. 1910's / 1920's) I found both these combinations of colours but I think the only one is the correct one. Can someone tell me which is the correct sequence for the 1st type ribbon ?? Many Thanks in advance Best Regards Lilo

Hi Alex For the badge see the following link : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28791 Regards Lilo

Hi hunyadi, Many, Many thanks for your precious help ! Best Regards Lilo

Hi Alex, Many Thanks for the photos. Pending the different colours of ribbons and the presence or Not of the swords, I presume that the awards of the photos you posted are destined to different persons (i.e. Civil, Military, etc.) Regards Lilo

Hi Eddie, Many Thanks also if I already knew this web site. Regards Lilo

Hello Hunyadi, Many, Many thanks for your precious Help ! Unfortunately I haven't a photo of B-P wearing this 'Order'. You have written : Quote All of the Orders of Merit were awarded with a specific ribbon : - Full green was awarded to civilians; - Green with red and white edges was for a military award during peace time; - red centre with green and white edges was for military during times of war. Unquote I think that when you referred to the 'Green with red and white edges' as the ribbon given for 'a military award during peace time' you were speaking as a ribbon issued to persons belonging to the Hungarian Army and not to the 'foreigners' as Baden-Powell. Moreover, I think that in 1929, when Baden Powell received the Hungarian award in question, He could only be considered as a 'CIVILIAN' by the Hungarians because He was not in the Hungarian Army and however, He wasn't, also, no more a British soldier as such because He retired from the British Army on to Reserve on May 7, 1910. Last, in regards of the class of this 'Order' received by B-P, I think that when the London Gazette refers to the 1st class, it would mean that B-P received the top class (i.e. Grand Cross) and this because of the importance of the man himself and confronting this with the usual level of similar awards B-P received by other Countries for similar reasons. So, If I have well understood, Am I right in considering that Baden Powell exactly received the: - Hungarian, 'CROSS' of Merit - 'Civil Division' (i.e. Without Swords)- with 'Full GREEN' ribbon. ??? Awaiting your (or others) replay All the Best Lilo

Hello All, I'm studying the Full medal entitlement of Lord Baden Powell, the founder of the Scout movement. I know that on August 1929 He received the so called : Hungarian Order of Merit (please see the below London Gazette entry) : Whitehall, August 8, 1929. The KING has been pleased to give and grant unto Lieutenant-General Sir Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell, Bt.., G.C.M.G., G.C.V.O., K.C.B., His Majesty's Royal licence and authority to wear the Insignia of the First Class of the Hungarian Order of Merit, which Decoration has been conferred upon him by His Serene Highness the Regent of Hungary, in recognition of valuable services rendered by him. THE LONDON GAZETTE, 9 AUGUST, 1929. 5213 Consulting the following web site : http://www.akm.externet.hu/rendjel/adatok/horthy/mer_en.htm, I have understood that in 1929 there was NO an 'ORDER' but a 'CROSS' of Merit. I know that it is a post WW1 award but I don't know where exactly I could post my 3 questions below, so have thought that the best place is still this one. 1st Question Am I right in having so understood ? 2nd Question Was the so called 'Order' of Merit received by Lord Baden Powell of the 'Civil' Division ? 3rd Question Was the colour of the ribbon of the so called 'Order' of Merit received by Lord Baden Powell in 1929, that of plain GREEN ? I please everyone that can help me - ALSO WITH A GUESS ? to answer these 3 questions (even with a simple 'yes' or 'not' near each question : it's important to me ! Many Thanks in Advance Best Regards Lilo

Hello Wild Card / Saschaw, Wild Card I have answered your questions in the 'proper' thread of the Duke of Connaught, see : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33750 Saschaw Obviously you are right that the 'Ernestine' order given to the Earl of Athlone should be that 'WITHOUT Swords' because given in time of peace (ca 1904) and frankly it was a surprise for me to see him wearing that with the 'swords' in the above photo. Notwithstanding, assuming that the Order in the end of the medal rack of Earl of Athlone is that of the 'Saxe-Ernestine House Order', and now I have no more doubt on this, we have however a photographic evidence that the Earl of Athlone indeed received that with the 'Swords' although we cannot understand the reason why. Anyone can explain the reason why Earl of Athlone received the 'Ernestine' Order with the 'Swords' ??? Regards Lilo

From the : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33807 Hello Wild Card, The German Orders the Duke of Connaught received were not the only you listed see a complete, I think, list below: Saxony, Order of the Rue Crown;Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha, Silver Jubilee Medal of the Wedding of Duke Alfred and Duchess Marie of 1899;Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha, Wedding Medal of Duke Carl-Eduard and Duchess Adelheid of 1905;Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order (2nd Model post 1864);Prussia , Black Eagle, Knight (17.2.1872);Prussia, Red Eagle, Grand Cross (17.2.1872);Prussia, Royal House Order of Hohenzollern without swords + collar;Prussia, Order 'Pour le Merite', (27 Nov. 1882);Hesse, Milit?r Verdienstkreuz 1870/71 (or Military Merit Cross 1870/71);Baden, House Order of Fidelity, Knight (7.9.1906).Regarding the Pour le M?rite given to the duke of Connaught, it was a 'Godet' designed piece but made in gold as part of the British Royal Collection. Wilhelm I awarded the badge to the Duke Arthur of Connaught in November 1882 in recognition of the role played by the Prince in the battle of Tel-el-Kebir (Egypt). The suspension ring shows an engraved "G". This piece was displayed during the exhibition in 1996 at Holyroadhouse, Edinburgh and Windsor castle (see: "Royal Insignia of British and Foreign Orders of Chivalry from the Royal collection" : the photo of this particular Blu Max is published in this book for this exhibition as number 39.) Regards Lilo

Hi Wild Card / Jeff / Arthur, Many thanks for your prompt help ! Best Regards Lilo

Hi James, again thanks for the answer. Regarding the medals on his medal rack I have identified the following : 1) DSO (29.11.1900) 2) Jubilee 1887 + bar 1897; 3) Coronation 1902; 4) British South Africa Company medal no bar; 5) QSA + 5 b. Paardeberg, Dreifontein, Relief of Kimberley, Relief of Mafeking,Tsv; 6) ?????? Do you have an Higher Resolution of the above photo that Can Help me in identifying the last Order on his Medal Rack ? Please let me know so that I can send you my email address by PM. Awaiting to hear from you All the Best Lilo

Hello All, Very recently a very kind forum member supplied me with the below photo of the : Earl of Athlone, then Prince Alexander of Teck, ca 1904 (see below). I should have correctly identified the Sash + badge and breast Star (in the photo indicated with the Nr. 1 and the Red arrows) worn Prince of Teck, as the Grand Cross of the Wurttemberg, Order of the Wurttemberg Crown. 1st Question: Am I correct with this identification ?? 2nd Question: Which Order is that at the end of His medal rack ? (in the photo indicated with the Nr. 2 and the Orange arrow) The choice is limited considering the datation of the photo (1904) and that the other two Orders He had at that time were : 1. Netherlands, Order of Orange-Nassau, 1904; 2. Coburg, Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order, 1904. Which between the above is represented as the Breast Badge (with SWORDS) at the end of His medal rack ? Awaiting to hear from you Best Regards Lilo

Hi James, Many Thanks for the photo you posted above. If possible, I would like to have your opinion on the fact if the Earl of Athlone DID or NOT received the : 'Sachsen -Koburg-Gotha, Wedding Jubilee Medal Alfred & Marie, 1899' See the following link : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33771 ? Best Regards Lilo

Hi Wild Card, Many Thanks for your opinion : Very much appreciated ! Best Regards Lilo

Hello Wild Card / James, May I ask to see - and if possible to give your opinion also - the following link : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33771 ? Best Regards Lilo

Hello All, I posted a similar question for the Duke of Connaught (see : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33750) In the previous post it was supposed as almost certain that the Duke of Connaught, although not participating at the events commemorated by the two Sachsen-Koburg-Gotha medals (1899 and 1905), being a prominent member of the Royal Family, with great probability indeed received them. So, for the award of these 2 medals in the specific case of the Duke of Connaught, we must bear in mind two important facts : 1) The particular blood link with the two personages issuing the two Sachsen-Koburg-Gotha medals (1899 and 1905) respectively brother e nephew; 2) The fact that the same Duke of Connaught, in 1899, came into direct line of succession to the Duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha in Germany. He decided, however, to renounce his own and his son's succession rights to the duchy, which then passed to his nephew, Prince Charles Edward (whose wedding was commemorated by the Sachsen-Koburg-Gotha medal of 1905). Regarding Brigadier-General Sir Alexander Augustus Frederick William Alfred George Cambridge (1874-1957) -Viscount Trematon in the county of Cambridge and Earl of Athlone- He received for SURE the 'Sachsen-Koburg-Gotha, Wedding Medal Carl Eduard & Adelheid, 1905', for the following reasons : 1) He is confirmed as having received this medal according to what found in the British National Archives; 2) He is the brother of the wife of Duke Carl Edward of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (the person whose wedding was commemorated by the 1905 medal); 3) He is mentioned in two Times articles (12 Oct 1905, pg. 3 - and - 14 Oct 1905, pg. 9), as having participated to the wedding ceremony of Duke Carl Edward of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, on 11. Oct. 1905. My Question What I would like to know is your opinion if the Earl of Athlone got or NOT also the 'Sachsen-Koburg-Gotha, Wedding Jubilee Medal Alfred & Marie, 1899'. You should bear in mind the following facts before giving your opinion : 1) Although the Earl of Athlone was a 'Royal Family' member, the blood link were different to those of the Duke of Connaught. In fact, although He was a great-great nephew of King George III and the brother of Queen Mary -(that married the future King George V, on 6 July 1893, in London)- in the year 1899 he had no direct relationship with the Royal Family to be invited, I think, to the event commemorating the '25? wedding year' of a Royal Family member; 2) Also, according the article on 'The Times, Jan 24, 1899, pg. 5 (Silver Wedding of the Duke of Saxe-Coburg)', the Earl of Athlone (than the Duke of Cambridge) was NOT present at the '25? wedding year' celebrations; 3) Last, in 1899, we can locate the future Earl of Athlone as campaigning in South Africa so excluding his presence in the UK, Germany or elsewhere. Awaiting to hear your precious considerations Best Regards Lilo

The Siamese medal is the : The Rajaruchi Medal 1897 (Rama V) Lilo

Mostly due to the successive institution of the WW2 BWM (6.June.1946) in respect of the Defence Medal (14 July 1945).

Hi All, as promised here following is the answer from the Liddell Hart Centre for Military Archives at King's College: 'Please accept my apologies for not replying sooner. Unfortunately, I don't think I can answer your question about the medal awarded to Ironside. As you may realise, we do not actually have any of Ironside's papers, we only have an unpublished account by Macleod. I do not know whether he says any more about Ironside's medal. You would be very welcome to come in to look at the Macleod papers but I realise that this may not be possible for you. I am very sorry that we would not be able to undertake detailed research on your behalf. Regards' As you can see, unfortunately, as stated in the answer, I cannot look at the Macleod papers from myself : only a person that visit the 'Centre' can do it. However, in the mean time, I contacted a well learned collector/researcher of the British Archives and active OMRS member that have done large searches in the UK archives for the 'foreign' MOD to British subjects. He advised me that He think the award of a German medal to the late Field Marshal as 'most unlikely that this happened' and that 'I have found no reference to any British officer having been awarded any German decoration for services during the Anglo-Boer war'. Regards Lilo

Hello Wild Card / James, Many, Many Thanks for your ?deep? comments : I greatly have appreciated them ! Best Regards Lilo

Hi All, I would like your opinion about the fact if the Duke of Connaught (a British Field Marshal) received or NOT the following medals : - 'Sachsen -Koburg-Gotha, Wedding Jubilee Medal Alfred & Marie, 1899' (this medal was issued to commemorate the 25? wedding year of Alfred, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh and brother of Field Marshal Duke of Connaught). and -'Sachsen-Koburg-Gotha, Wedding Medal Carl Eduard & Adelheid, 1905', (this medal was issued to commemorate the wedding of Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Albany and nephew of Field Marshal Duke of Connaught). Please bear in mind that : 1) From two different articles published on the newspaper : 'The Times', I have proof that the Duke of Connaught was absent on both events (1899 and 1905); 2) Both these medals were awarded to those who took an important part in the proceedings. I have discussed this with a couple of very knowledged collectors and they had the exact opposite opinion : - one stated that as the Duke of Connaught wasn't present at the events these medals commemorated and as these medals were awarded to persons that took an important part in the proceedings, the Duke DIDN'T received them. - the other stated that : 'although formally they belonged to state decorations, they were in fact semi-private awards of the ruling family, awarded mostly to the individuals who had participated in the festivities or in preparations to them (so are the British coronation and jubilee medals). I have no information if the Field Marshal Duke of Connaught received the medals, but as he was a prominent member of the Saxe-Coburg family it is more likely that he did than that he didn't - no matter whether he had taken part in the ceremonies or not.' What I would like to know is your opinion about what do you think as more probable that the Duke DIDN'T received the 2 medals or that he DID received them (may be as an informal gift) ?? Many Thanks for your Help and Awaiting to hear your guess Best Regards Lilo

Hi Mike / Ed Many thanks for your answers. Mike I suspect that the original colour for the ribbon of this Order, was the 'dark crimson' as that in the photo posted by Christian L. (see also the photo I posted below) I don't know when, but at some point later it chanched in the colours of the ribbon as in the photo you posted. I'll try to dig a little deep and if I'll find something, I'll post the result here. Again many thanks Lilo

Hello Christian, Very, Very many thanks for your appreciated Help ! Best Regards Lilo

Hi Kim, Many thanks for your precisation ! Best Regards Lilo