lilo

So anyone that can help me ? At least can someone answer on the version given to the foreign (i.e. Non-Austrian) ?? Thanks again Lilo

Hello All I'm trying to confirm the award of the 'Austria, Imperial Leopold Order' to 2 british recipients. I think that the below listed British persons received the 'Grosskreuz' of the 'Austria, Imperial Leopold Order' : Wood in 1904 and Mountbatten in 1908. - Field Marshal Sir Henry Evelyn WOOD (1838-1919) ; - Admiral of the Fleet Louis Alexander Mountbatten, 1st Marquess of Milford Haven (1854-1921). 1st Question : Can you confirm that they both received the 'Grosskreuz' class of this Order and that the year of awards (1904 and 1908) are correct ? Last, I read somewhere (I don't exactly remember but it should be in a forum) that the version of the 'Imperial Leopold Order' awarded to foreign (i.e. NON Austrian people) had the 'Austrian Crown & Ribands/scroll' of the suspension removed. In other words, considering the Sash badge of the Order, the part formed by the 'Crown + Scrolls' through which the ribbon pass, is removed and substituted with a simple ring for the version destined to foreign. 2nd question : Is it true the above statement ? I would greatly appreciated you help and you can answer also with a simple 'yes' and or 'Not' All the Best Lilo

Hello UWE, Wounderful ! The above Very DETAILED explanation is exactly what I was looking for. a BIG Thank you for your very appreciated help. Best Regards Lilo

Hello Uwe, As the focal point to me is to correctly identify what was really awarded to Lord Baden Powell are you agree wtih what I have written in the post preceding yours ? In other words I would like you, pending the exame of the 2 photos of Baden Powell (see 2 links I posted above), confirm if He (Baden Powell) received the Grand Cross of 'Austrian Order of Merit' with the : 1) cross made with 'white enamell' (for civil); 2) sash ribbon used for the class received by Baden Powell is : 'white with 2 red stripes near each edge' (see the photo of this sash ribbon I have above attached). Awaiting to Hear from you again Regards Lilo

Hello Gordon, Thank you for the answer. I would like to do a precisation about the Austrian Order attribuited, if I have well understood, to Baden Powell and shown in the web page whose link (http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-honours-austria.htm) you have furnished. The description says : Quote : 'Baden-Powell received the Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Austrian Republic at the time of the Sixth World Scout Conference in 1931 at Baden near Vienna. Photos of the Ribbon, Medal and Cross are courtesy of Herbert Balka, Chief of the Austrian Scouting Museum.' Unquote I don't believe AT ALL that the photos in that web page shown the 'TRUE' Austrian Order received by Baden Powell and this because the Order in the left photo is suspended from an incorrect ribbon. We know that Badel Powell received the Grand Cross and the exact colours of the ribbon (sash) for this class of the Order can be seen at : http://www.medals.lava.pl/at/at2.htm (For comodity I below have attached a photo of the ribbon in question) Last, the confirm that my statement is correct, came from the same website, were are at least 2 photos that show Baden Powell wearing the sash of the Grand Cross of this Austrian Order (white ribbon with 2 dark [red] stripes on the edge). See : http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-austria-1931-6.htm http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-austria-1931-2.htm As you can see the colours of the sash worn by Baden Powell in the 2 photos and the colours of the ribbon (white with 2 red stripes on the edge) as represented in the 'Austrian ribbon web page' for the Grand Cross of this Austrian Order, perfectly match. All the best Lilo

Hello All, A propos of the ?Austrian (Republic 1918-38), Order of Merit?, I noted that there are at least 2 versions : 1) that with a ?red? enamelled cross; 2) that with a ?white? enamelled cross. -What is the difference between them ? -Have the 2 different colours (?red? and ?white?) a particular meaning ? -Does the difference have to do to distinguish the military from a civil award or does it have to do with the fact that it could also be awarded to non-Austrian citizens ? -In other words, from what depends that a person receive the ?red? cross instead of the ?white? cross and viceversa? Please let me know the difference Thanks in advance Lilo

Hello Erik Thank you, I have greatly appreciated your help ! Regards Lilo

Hello All, I noted at least two different types of the ?Order of the Netherlands Lion? (see photos attached): A) type without enamel around the lion; B) type with enamel around the lion. I would like to know : Do this difference in manufacture enable us to establish exactly in which period (from ? to) that Order was adopted or it is a simple variation due to who made the Order ? In other words, considering the type without enamel around the lion, can we exactly establish when this pattern was in use ? If so, can you specify what is the period of issue (from ? to) for both the ?A? and ?B? patterns ? Awaiting to hear from you Best Regards Lilo

Hi Gor Thank you Lilo

Hello Rick, Enzo Enzo Please consider 2 important factors that, to my advise, make clear that it cannot be a Wuttemberg medal : Any of the colours of the Wuttemberg medals doesn't match with those in the photo : 'wide dark central stripe + 2 white (??) thinner edge stripes' (see: <a href="http://www.bundesverdienstorden.de/" target="_blank">http://www.bundesverdienstorden.de/</a> <a href="http://www.worldmedals.co.uk/Rib/germrib.htm" target="_blank">http://www.worldmedals.co.uk/Rib/germrib.htm</a> ) The 'Head' in the center of the medal seems (to me at least) to be 'oriented' to the left and this 'Head' appears to be large in dimension. So, please, can you make me an example of a Wuttenburg medal that can match with these details ? Awaiting to hear from you again All the Best Lilo

Hello Enzo Any chance to see a photo of the Zanzibar group posted as reference on this thread ?? It would be useful to try to indetify some medals. Regards Lilo

Hello Paul, thanks for the interest. the photo I attached below its just an example and was taken from another thread on this forum, see: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23465 I would to point out that of this cross does exist a 'breast star' with a pin for wearing. Awaiting to hear from you again Regards Lilo

Hello Lukasz, I must thank you one more time : as usual your answer is what I was looking for. As an aside, as I'm researching the full medal entitlement of British High Ranking officers, I would like to know if you have some list to establish who received the 'Military Order of the White Lion for Victory'. I already know that Field Marshals Montgomery and Alan Brooke received the 1st class for this Order; I also know that Field Marshal Alexander did received this Order (I think the 1st class because of the golden crossed swords in the breast star) but I don't know 'when' (year/month) in which He received it: Can you let me know ? Last, do you have also a list of the British (High Ranking Army, RAF, Royal Navy officers) recipients that received the 'White Lion Order', from which we can know and distinguish who received the military verison with 'swords' form those who received the 'civil' version ? My two late requests are only informations that I would receive if possible (so don't bother if it is a more difficult task) : the important question was already ansered by you, Lukasz All the best Lilo

Hi All, I'm new of this 'brach' of the forum and I would like to ask your help about a (Austrian or German ??) medal given to: H.R.H. Major-General Francis Paul Charles Louis Alexander Duke of Teck (1837-1900) (You can see a biography of Him at : <a href="http://www.regiments.org/biography/royals/1837fraT.htm" target="_blank">http://www.regiments.org/biography/royals/1837fraT.htm</a> ) To make clear Who is the person I'm searching, we must take in mind 2 fundamental things to avoid any confusion : 1) the EXACT name : 'Francis (or Franz) Paul Charles Louis', 2) His birth/death dates : (1837-1900). What I have explained above is very important to avoid confusion between many male members of the same family that used the same title 'Duke of Teck' and had a series of first names that changed very little between them, things that can cause confusion on a research work. The Duke of Teck -normally referred as Francis (or 'Franz' in German/Austrian sources) 1837-1900- was born in Vienna and embarked upon a career in the Austrian army as following : -1849-1853 Imperial Academy of Engineers, Vienna; -1864 Lieutenant, 1st Regiment of Lancers; -1856 Lieutenant, Guard Squadron; -1856 Captain, 7th Regiment of Hussars; -1859 Orderly Officer to Field Marshal Count von Wimpffen, Italy; - served in Franco-Italian campaign (rcvd: Gold Medal for the Battle of Solferino, Bronze War Medal); -1866 He retired from the Austrian army. I have found a B/W photo (please see the attachment) that shows him wearing his medals (and it is datable between 1892-1900, year of his death); From his biography (of which I attached the link at the starting of this thread) and from the analysis of the photo He appears to have received the following AUSTRIAN Orders/medals (I listed them as they are ordered on his medal rack in the photo) : 1. Order of Franz Joseph, Grand Cross (1904) 2. Order of the Iron Crown, Knight of the 1st class (1908) 3. Military Merit Med (Milit?rverdienstmedaillen) (Signum Laudis) Franz Joseph I, (Gilt bronze, combatant ribbon); 4. Kriegsmedaille 1873 (or General War Service med), bronze; 5. Marian Cross (Marianer-Kreuz) of the German Knight Order; 6. ????? My Question: Can anyone correctly identify what exactly is the LAST medal (addressed with a 'red arrow' in the photo) He wears in his medal rack in the photo attached ? To correctly identify this medal I would also point your attention to some details anyone can clearly desume analyzing the photo : 1) the position (order of precedence) that this medal occupy on the medal rack; 2) the 'Head' in the center of the medal seems to be 'oriented' to the left; 3) the diameter (dimension) of the medal; 4) the 'ring' (???) suspension; 5) the 'trifold' ribbon used to suspend this medal; 6) the colours of this ribbon : wide dark central stripe + 2 white (??) thinner edge stripes. Of help may be also a comment that another good collector/researcher (also a member of this forum) gave me in another forum that I fully report following : ''The last medal constitutes a much bigger problem. It may come from any country and the fact that the ribbon is trifolded suggests that it the Duke received it during his Austrian service rather than the medal is Austrian itself or from a country where trifold ribbons were used - in Austria they tended to wear foreign awards on trifolded ribbons too! I personally think the medal is a coronation, wedding or jubilee medal of some other country, perhaps of one of German states - unfortunately both the ribbon and the medal itself are too indistinct to tell you more right now.'' I also should be tempted to think - as a logical award - to the Austrian Jubilee 1898 medal but I'm not sure and so, must I consider this last medal to be the Austrian Jubilee 1898 (surely not the Jubilee 1908 medal because He was already dead) or is it another medal at all ? I would greatly appreciate your help/thinking Awaiting to hear from you again Best Regards Lilo

Hi All that are the what I was looking for to have confirmed ! I'll do a couple of questions - in separate threads about 2 others Imperial German awards received by the Earl of Atholne. Regards Lilo

Hello Speedytop / Paul thanks to have posting on this thread. Speedytop I posted a photo of the Order that isn't the real one awarded to Earl of Athlone : it was just an example! However, from your words, I understood that the 'Grand Cross' always has the 'lions' and the 'crown'. Are you also sure that He didn't received the 'swords' ? Paul Thanks for your defense but please don't mind about it. WE are here to enjoy the medal world ! Thanks again Lilo

Hello All, I?m studing the awards given to a member of the British Royal Family (that was also a High Ranking Officer being He a Field Marshal). The person whose awards I'm studying is : Brigadier-General Sir Alexander Augustus Frederick William Alfred George Cambridge (1874-1957), Viscount Trematon in the county of Cambridge and Earl of Athlone. (He was the younger brother of Queen Mary, wife of UK King George V) Among the Orders He received I found that He was a recipient of the : Wurttemburg, Order of the Wurttemberg Crown, Grand Cross (awarded on 10.2.1904) I admit my great ignorance about German Imperial awards and tried to search this Order by google finding that exist various Types of the Order in question (see : <a href="http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/wuerttemberg.htm" target="_blank">http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/wuerttemberg.htm</a>) The questions (I hope that they are easy to answer) I would like that you answer about the 'Order of the Wurttemberg Crown' received by the Earl of Athlone are below listed (please excuse me again for my ignorance and what that can appear stupid questions !): 1) I read that the 'swords' were (introduced on September 19, 1870) 'for merit before the enemy', and as I don't think that He received this Order for facts related to war but simply as a member of the UK Royal Family (that had close connection with the various members of the Royalty of the Old Imperial Germany), can you confirm that He received this Order without 'SWORDS' ? 2) Can You confirm that He received the type of this Order suspended by a 'Crown' ? 3) Can you confirm that He received the type with the 'LIONS' between the arms of the Cross ? 4) Last, I have attached a photo of the Order I think the Earl of Athlone really received (witouht 'SWORDS' but with 'CROWN' and 'LIONS'). Can You Confirm that I'm rigth ? To avoid to waste time You can answer putting a simple 'yes' or 'not' near each question. Thanking you in advance and awaiting to hear from you Best Regards Lilo

Badge of the Landwehr Intended to distinguish members of the Landwehr. It appears as a straight-sided, white metal cross, covered with white enamel with a narrow sky-blue edging along the sides of the cross. On the cross is laid sword with its handle upwards, over which is a shield with a cross of black enamel. The reverse side is smooth with a pin for wearing. IT SHOULD BE IMPORTANT TO ME THAT SOME MEMBER KINDLY ANSWER TO THE 2 BELOW QUESTIONS : 1) Is it the Badge of the Landwehr (or "Ehrenkreuz der Baltischen Landeswehr") an Order/Decoration OR is it an 'Unit badge' ? 2) If it is an Order/Decoration, what are the colours of the ribbon pertaining this cross ? Hoping that have an answer to my questions Thanks in advance Best Regards Lilo

Hello All, I'm writing this post because I would like to know some information about the White Lion Order. Before to make my questions, I would like to mention that I discovered that 2 British Field Marshals (Alan Brooke and Montgomery) did received both the : - Czechoslovakia, Order of the White Lion 'for Victory' (Star 1st Class) - Czechoslovakia, Order of the White Lion, 1st Class First question : Must I consider both the awards above described, pertaining to one and the same Order in which that 'for Victory' was a sort of special class issued for the victorius end of WW2 to the Allied Forces or, this last is a separate Order from its own ? Regarding the 2 British Field Marshals above mentioned I also noted that : 1) Field Marshal Alan Brooke, in his miniature medal rack, worn contemporaneously both the miniatures for the 2 types (classes ??) of the Order above listed. 2) Field Marshal Montgomery in his ribbon bar worn 2 same ribbons to represent (I think) the 2 different awards of this Order. My 2nd and most important question : Was the recipient of both 2 types (classes ??) above mentioned of the White Lion Order, authorized to wear on His ribbon bar 2 identical ribbons to represent either the '1st class' and the special class "for Victory" ? Or, being the same Order, it was sufficient to wear only 1 ribbon for both 2 types (classes ??) ? Awaiting to hear from you again Thanks for the help Regards Lilo

CONFIRMED ! the Cross ALexanders wears is the : Badge of the Landwehr Intended to distinguish members of the Landwehr. It appears as a straight-sided, white metal cross, covered with white enamel with a narrow sky-blue edging along the sides of the cross. On the cross is laid sword with its handle upwards, over which is a shield with a cross of black enamel. The reverse side is smooth with a pin for wearing. So our member Saschaw was rigth ! NOW IT SHOULD BE IMPORTANT TO ME THAT SOME MEMBER KINDLY ANSWER TO THE 2 BELOW QUESTIONS : 1) Is it the Badge of the Landwehr (or "Ehrenkreuz der Baltischen Landeswehr") an Order/Decoration OR is it an 'Unit badge' ? 2) If it is an Order/Decoration, what are the colours of the ribbon pertaining this cross ? Hoping that you answer my question Thanks in advance Best Regards Lilo P.S. A precisation : We cannot see the 'swords' under the shield (with the black enamelled cross) because in the exemplar worn by Alexander this sword was part of the enamell and not in relief as in the photo our member Kev in Deva have furnished.

For what Regards the Cross ALexanders wears it was confirmed that it is the : Badge of the Landwehr Intended to distinguish members of the Landwehr. It appears as a straight-sided, white metal cross, covered with white enamel with a narrow sky-blue edging along the sides of the cross. On the cross is laid sword with its handle upwards, over which is a shield with a cross of black enamel. The reverse side is smooth with a pin for wearing. So our member Saschaw was rigth ! A precisation : We cannot see the 'swords' under the shield (with the black enamelled cross) because in the exemplar worn by Alexander this sword was part of the enamell and not in relief as in the photo our member Kev in Deva have furnished. Best Regards Lilo

Hello All For future riferiment I below have attached a photo taken from ?La Galerie Numismatique? auction catalog 25th Sept 2005 ? Lot 573 :

Hello Gents, I think that Saschaw was been correct in thinking that what Alexander was wearing is really the "Ehrenkreuz der Baltischen Landeswehr" from 1919 . I'm waiting an answer to definitively confirm this fact and as soon as I'll have the confirm, I'll post it here. I would like to know : 1) Is it the "Ehrenkreuz der Baltischen Landeswehr" from 1919 an Order/Decoration OR is it an 'Unit badge' ? 2) If it is an Order/Decoration, what are the colours of the ribbon pertaining this award ? Thanks in advance Best Regards Lilo

Dear Alex, I haven't the book from which I took the photo I posted on this thread (really I took it from ebay so the poor quality) but I'll do my best to obtain a more clear photo asking in other forums although it could take some time. Alex, you are also rigth regarding the 'sword' over the shield of "Ehrenkreuz der Baltischen Landeswehr". Below attached is a photo of the cross in question (2nd class) that was posted by our member Kev in Deva in the 'Imperial Germany' section of this forum (see : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23465 ) Best Regards Lilo

Hello Gents, Thanks All very much for the help ! George, I don't know from which book you took the B/W photo (with the relative description) you posted but, following your important input, I continued my search and found the following ?very interesting ?link : <a href="http://home.comcast.net/~markconrad/1917-20.html" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.comcast.net/~markconrad/1917-20.html" target="_blank">http://home.comcast.net/~markconrad/1917-20.html</a></a> In this website are described 2 similar crosses to that you posted. What I noted is that the description you took from your book is, for some particular, a mixed up in respect of the descriptions of the 2 similar crosses discussed in the above link. In other words, if you compare the description of the cross, as written in your book, with the 2 descriptions present in the above link, you also surely will note that the description of your book is a mix of those reported in the link I found (see for example the ribbon colours). Following I'm reporting what, I think, is relevant to our discussion from the above link : Quote: (From Russkaya Armiya 1917-1920; Obmundirovanie, Znaki Razlichiya, Nagrady i Nagrudnye Znaki, by O. V. Kharitonov and V. V. Gorshkov.) THE RUSSIAN ARMY 1917-1920 UNIFORMS, DISTINCTIVE INSIGNIA, DECORATIONS, AND BREAST PINS "KARAVELLA" PUBLISHING HOUSE, Saint-Petersburg, 1991 (Pages 56-62) UNIFORMS, ORDERS, AND INSIGNIA OF THE WHITE GUARDS ARMIES WEST AND NORTHWEST RUSSIA 1) Ataman Bulak-Bulakhovich's "Order of the Brave" Star Appears as a gilt eight-pointed star, on which is laid a white metal cross in the St.-George style, covered with white enamel, and measuring 64 x 64 mm with crossed swords with handles downward. In the center of the cross is a round, stamped medallion which is covered in black enamel, above which are depicted: above a crossed sword and torch ? a death's head. The medallion is surrounded by a laurel wreath, intertwined below with a ribbon with the motto "For Our and Your Freedom" ["Za nashu i vashu svobodu"]. The reverse side has a screw for wearing it. The ribbon is black with two gold edges along the sides of the ribbon. 2) Ataman Bulak-Bulakhovich's Cross of the Brave. Appears as a white metal cross in the St.-George style, covered with white or black enamel (also encountered without enamel). Dimensions 35 x 35 mm. In the middle of the cross is a stamped, round medallion of oxidized silver, on which are depicted: above a crossed sword and torch ? a death's head. The medallion is surrounded by a laurel wreath, intertwined below with a ribbon. The reverse is smooth. It was worn on a black 38mm ribbon with two green edges along the sides of the ribbon, each being 55 mm. Unquote Comparing the 'White enamelled cross' weared by Alexander in the photo I posted with the descriptions of the 2 above Crosses ? BOTH ST. GEORGE STYLE CROSS, COVERED WITH WHITE ENAMEL - we can find that it (Alexander's) match for some particulars to both and, on the same time, differ for some particular to both. The cross worn by Alexander, for what appears to be its dimension, match with the "Order of the Brave" Star (measuring 64 x 64 mm) but completely differ for the fact that this last has 'crossed swords with handles downward' (that worn by Alexander hasn't at all 'crossed swords'). Always taking in mind the proportions of the cross worn by Alexander in the photo, it doesn't match with the 'Cross of the Brave' because of the dimension of this last (35 x 35 mm) that seems to me too little. In my opinion in fact, the dimension of the cross in the Alexander photo appears to be lager than 35 x 35 mm of the 'Cross of the Brave' (that, on the contrary, match with that of Alexander because haven't 'crossed swords'). At this point, before to go ahead with my search on this argument, I would kindly ask you 2 important questions : 1) First of all (as it is still not clear to me) I would like to know if the crosses we are discussing above belongs to the category of "Medal/Decorations/Order" or if they belongs the so called 'Unit badge' category (and so aren't equipared to what we normanly consider 'medals')? 2) Are the ribbons (mentioned in each of the above descriptions of the 2 crosses) used in the same manner as we usually find to suspend the medals or are more similar, for example, to the ribbons used for US veterans badge for civil/Indian wars ? Awaiting with the outmost interest in hearing the answer to my 2 questions Best Regards Lilo