lilo

Thord-Gray wearing the unkown ribbon

You can see the unkown Swedish medal at : http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/artifactView.do?idOwner=S-AM&idIdentifier=AM.087036&pageNo=1&noOnPage=12&owner=&criteria=Medalj%2c+F%c3%b6reningen&searchObjectType=Unknown&onlyWithPictures=&lastPageNo=2&noInResult=22

Hi again Mopsi, 1) Regarding the British WW1 Lt. Col. Uniform on page 1, it could well be that worn by Thord-Gray but with wrongly mounted ribbons belonging to another person ! 2) Regarding the Spanish Order of San Fernando, if you go on page 2 and see the Thord-Gray's ribbon bar, there is a ribbon (red with yellow edges) that although it is NOT perfectly matching with that of San Fernando, it (the ribbon) could be suitable in case the correct one is not readably available to mount. So, it can well be that the tailor that mounted the Thord-Gary's ribbon bar used a 'similar' ribbon for that of San Fernando. Again, can you please let me know if Thord-Gray's nephew (Mj Gen Arne Hallström) did mentioned the Spanish Order of San Fernando between the Orders given to him ? 3) There is another medal non present in your list that Thord-Gary received and that you can see mounted either in his miniature medal bar or in his ribbon bar (both on page 2). It is a Swedish medal that I couldn't identify for its illegible (at least to me) swedish name but I'm pretty sure it is the : 'Medalj, Föreningen för skidlöpningens främjande i Sverige' Can You please translate what exactly this medal is for ? You can see this particular medal at : http://www.digitaltm...3&noInResult=25 Apparently, He worn this medal from a wrong ribbon : "Blue/Yellow/Blue" instead of "Half Blue / Half Yellow". Moreover, regarding the 'unknown medal' that on 'post 62' (page 4) you suspected to be Chinese and that is worn as a ribbon in the picture of Thord-Gray as Colonel in Mexico 1914 (see your 'post 61' and photo with 'red arrow' below), it could well be just this Swedish medal that Thord-Gray worn from the wrong ribbon. The wrong "Blue/Yellow/Blue" ribbon used by Thord-Gray for this medal perfectly match with the 'Grey/White/Grey' colour of the 'unknown' ribbon worn in the in the picture of Thord-Gray as Colonel in Mexico 1914. The only thing to establish is the year of award of this medal to Thord-Gray. Regards Lilo

Another point to examine is what are the 3 ribbons Thord-Gray wears on his british WW1 uniform as shown on page 1. Below I attached an abstract of that photo containing these 3 ribbons. They could be all Swedish : From Left to rigth : - Black Ribbon : Order of the North Star (Nordstjärneorden), Comm Great Cross 1962; - Green ribbon : Order of Vasa; - last ribbon : Stockholm Olympics medal 1912, (Silver ?). but this doesn't match for the following reasosns : 1) The only Order suspended from a black ribbon that match with the list of Orders received by Thord-Gray is the black ribbon of the Swedish, Order of the North Star. But being the uniform represented on page 1 that of a WW1 British officer and as you have written that Thord-Gray received the Swedish, Order of the North Star in 1962, this make my conclusion an impossible one. 2) Moreover, there is no trace at all of the other two medal/Order I metioned between the medals and Orders of Thord-Gray hold by the Armémuseum in Stockholm (go to:http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/ownerInfo.do and type Thord-Gray name). At this point, could be that the uniform didn't belong to THORD-GRAY ? Before to go on we must wait that our member Claudio could confirm if the photo he posted was that worn by THORD-GRAY or not.

Hi Many Thanks. You have written : 'Thord did not write what medals he had got. It was made by his nephew MjGen Arne Hallström some 10 years after Thord passed away in 1964.' Can you please let me know if Thord-Gray'snephew (MjGen Arne Hallström) did mentined the Spanish Order of San Fernando between the Orders given to him ? Regards Lilo

2) USA, Military Order of the World Wars

Thord-Gray received 2 USA unofficial badges (for veteran organizations) that you can find at the end of his medal bar in the first post of page 1. They are : 1) USA, Military Order of Foreign Wars

another one

Forgot to added the photo of the Order of San Fernando .........

Hi, Also in my opinion and although the Order in the photo on page 2 is not clear, it looks like that of San Fernando. I can affirm this by comparing the particular suspention of this Order in the photo below with that worn by Thord-Gray. Can you post an Higher resolution of that photo or do an enlargement of the medal bar worn by Thord-Gray, please ? Lilo

Hi Mopsi, I have followed your posting about Thord-Gray on various forums for some years by now and I'm trying to reconstruite His full medal entitlement. I would like to start my discussion about his medals from your above statement and ask you : what let you believe that the ribbon Nr. 6 is that for the Spanish Order of San Fernando ? Have you found mention of this particular Order on his papers ? I'm asking this because according its colours (with the predominant white), it looks like -to me at least- that of the 'Spain, Order of Isabella Catholica'. See also the following link : http://awards.netdia...la/Isabella.htm; Using an on-line translator from the russian it sounds - more or less - : "The Royal American order of Isabel the Catholic has three classes and was founded by Ferdinand in 1815. This Order, as shows its name, had a special designation - to serve as reward for the manifestation of faithfulness and zeal in the protection of Spanish possessions in America, where national liberation motion proceeded with lift. With the loss of American colonies it became reward for the merits of any kind. ................." Please let me know the source from what you think that it was, instead, the San Fernando Order. Regards Lilo

Hi Jeff, Many Thanks, a very beautifull group ! Regards Lilo

Hi Jeff, Many thanks for your replay. The above named exapmple is one that I already was aware of ! I have the complete Roll (i.e. USA + Foreign recipients) for this Order so if I can be of some help, please don't esitate to contact me every time you need of a check ! Best Regards Lilo

Hi Jeff, May I know which exactly is the inscription (i.e. Number, name, unit etc ?) on the back of the disk ? I'm asking this because I'm trying to record all the surviving examples of this Order. Many Thanks in advance Regards Lilo

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Richard, 1) After researching what I saved in my database, I have found a discussion we made on the OMSA forum (about a similar subject) that I completely have forgotten but that is extremely interesting. You can see it at : http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2142 What emerged in that occasion was that, if I have well understood what you have written, the 'Order of the Golden Grain (Chia Ho)' and the the 'Order of the Most Precious Brilliant Golden Grain (Pao Kuang)' are two DIFFERENT Orders. In this instance, if I have well understood, you are describing them as one and the same Order and in particular that the 'Precious Brilliant (Pao Kuang)' is a 'grade' of the 1st class of the Golden Grain (Chia Ho). Can you please better explain the what is correct between the two facts above stated ? 2) Returning to my initial question asked at the starting of this post and regarding the China, Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain', can you strictly confirm that there is a physical evident difference between the badges of the 1st class and the 2nd class of this Order ? 3) Regarding what we discussed in the OMSA forum (http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2142), a question still remain un-answered : Have you been able, by now, to ascertain what are the different colours used for the 1st and 2nd class ribbons of the Golden Grain Order (Chia Ho) ?? As previously stated I suspect that the 1st class used a wide yellow central stripe with 2 red edge stripes while the 2nd class had always the wide yellow central stripe but the edges stripes were white in colour. What can you tell me at this propos ? Awaiting to hear from you Best Regards Lilo

Hello Richard, I was not aware that one (I presume that in colour) of the two photos I posted is one of yours (the other was taken from a Sotheby's catalog). From a long time I have saved in my database photos of medals and orders from an infinity of sources only as a riferiment for my research and no infringiment of copyright was intended. However, I apologise if I was wrong. What I don't understand is your statement : 'once again'. Can you, respectfully, let me know what was the other occasion when I posted one of your photos so that I try to remember which one are yours and which aren't to avoid any problem in the future ???? For what regards your suggestion on the Chinese Orders with the 'red stone', I'll follow it and I'll post the above question on the other forum. In the meanwhile thank you to have taken trouble in answering my post. Regards Lilo

Below is the 2nd class of this Order

Hi Everyone, While checking the Sotheby's auction catalogue of 24th-28th March, 1995 I found two Lots (341 and 342) that were described respectively as the 1st class and the 2nd class of the China, Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain'. I have attached the two photos that are on the catalogue for the two classes. As you can clearly see there is a physical evident difference between the badges of these two classes. My Question Can - a more expert member of this forum - confirm this physical difference between the classes of this Order ? In other words what I would like to know is if the physical difference between the badges of the 1st class and the 2nd class of this Order is correct. Many Thanks Lilo Below is the 1st Class of this Order

Many Thanks for all involved ! Ed, 1) can you let me know if the so called 'morning glory blue' (reported in Peterson book) is the same shade of colour of the scan I posted Below ? 2) In the description are mentioned '18mm edge stripes' : is it stated something about the colour they should have ? Regards Lilo

Hi Paul, I was not enough clear with my question. What I would like to know - if possible - is which are the colour/colours of the Sash Ribbon of this Order and NOT how the sash badge of this Order is. Best Regards Lilo

Have I well understood ?? You have written that : 'The sash badge colours are the same with the "cloud" suspender'. What do you mean ? Is the colour of this Sash Badge the plain 'pale green' or is it with some stripes near the edge ? Have you the possibility to scan the relevant page of the 'Peterson's book published by the OMSA' where this sash is shown ? Many Thanks Regards lilo

Hi Paul, Can you please let me know which are the colours of the sash badge ? If you have a photo can you please post it here as a reference or can you post a link where I can see it ? Many Thanks Lilo

Hi All, I'm trying to establish the Full medal entitlement (COMPRENSIVE of Japanese and Foreign Awards) of Tojo Hideki (1884-1948). In my database I found his ribbon bar and a photo of him wearing many awards (I posted both below) Examining his ribbon bar He appears to be entitled to the following (From left to right) : 1st Row : - Japan, Order of the Rising Sun (which class ??); - Japan, Order of the Sacred Treasure (which class ??); - Japan, Order of the Golden Kite (which class ??); - Manchukuo Order of Orchid Blossom (Grand Cordon ?); 2nd Row : - ?? - Manchukuo, Order of the Auspicious Clouds ??? - Manchukuo, Medal The Pillars of State (which class ??); - ?? 3rd Row : - Italy, Order of the Crown, Cavaliere di Gran Croce; - ?? Order of the German Eagle ?? - ?? - Japan, Russo-Japanese War Medal 1904-05 4th Row : - Japanese Taisho Enthronement Commemorative Medal; - Japan 1914-1915 or 1914-1920 ?? War Medal; - Japan, Victory Medal; - Japanese Showa Enthronement Medal; 5th Row : - Japan, 1931-1934 Manchukuo Incident medal; - Japan, 1937-1945 Shino-Japanese medal; - Japan, 2600th National Anniversary Commemorative Medal (quasi sicuro); - Manchukuo, National Foundation Merit Medal 1933; 6th Row : - Manchukuo, National Shrine Foundation Commemorative Medal 1940; - Japan, Red Cross Order of Merit; - Japan, Red Cross Membership Medal (Silver ??); - Manchukuo, Red Cross 'Order of Merit' or 'Membership Medal' ? From the Exame of the photo I noted that He was also awarded with : - Manchukuo, Order of the Illustrious Dragon (which class ??); - Italy, Order of St. Mauritius & St. Lazarus (Cavaliere di Gran Croce); My Questions: 1) Can you correct / added something to what I have already identified above ? 2) Did He received other Japanese Medals ? 3) I'm sure that He received other FOREIGN orders but which ?? 4) Did he received the 'The Border Incident War Medal' ?? Awaiting to hear from you Best Regards Lilo