TacHel

IMHO, the Order of Lenin should've been as or almost as rare as the Order of St Andrew had it not been relegated to a long service award, to an automatic award with the Gold Stars, or as a military bravery and leadership award during WW2. Its original intent was quite similar to St Andrew.

And I still maitain that with the reestablishments of the Orders of St Andrew, of St George and of Alexander Nevsky, that the Order "For Merit to the Fatherland" has no true reason for being anymore... It was a catch all award meant to be a modern Russian Order before there was intent to restore former Imperial Orders.

I wasn't comparing HSl to the Order of St Andrew. Like I said, there are groups requesting a modern equivalent to the HSL exactly because all agree that St Andrew isn't the same.

I've looked again and again at the word between "Le" and "Bruneau" in different magnifications, not even sure it's "capitaine"...

Would he, could he have had a special title?

This is what I (think I) see: P (or partial C), ?, f. ?, t (or b), a, i, r, e

HI,

I think "In memory of the post d'Information " (The PILE)

Looking at it again, I think your spot on with "poste d'information".

The disk is stamped "Lemaire" and the wreathed suspender are definately french made though.

OK, kind of odd they repaired the suspension loop 90 degrees off... Hmmmm...

Signature seems to be Col Bruneau

Where do you see "colonel"? Really looks like "capitaine"... No?

A reason I mentioned an indigenous manufacture was the ribbon, it looks like it was crocheted...

I completely agree with JapanX here, the Order "For Merit to the Fatherland" 3rd and 4th classes are pretty common. Personally, I'd compare them for civilians to the Soviet Order of Labour Glory with the 2 higher classes comparing to the Order of the Badge of Honour and the Order of the Red Banner of Labour. For the military, I'd compare them to the 3 classes of the Order "For Service to the Homeland in the Armed Forces of the USSR.

Matter of fact Lukazs, the total lack of anything equivalent or close to "Hero of Socialist Labour" has raised requests from labour unions and groups in Russia for the establishment of a similar decoration in the same manner as "Hero of the Russian Federation" was created.

As for St Andrew versus Lenin, take away the awards of the Order of Lenin made during the war or for long service (this was dumb!), the number of recipients goes down drastically. I honestly can't think of another Soviet award coming close to the Order of St Andrew.

GRANTED, the original intent of the Order "For Merit to the Fatherland was to replace a multitude of Soviet awards and its statute was, and still is an amalgam of those past ODMs; but the establishments of both the Order of St Andrew and St George have relegated it to much lower status and prestige.

JapanX, what do you think of the following:

-The Order of St Andrew replaced the Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 1st class.

-The Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 1st class replaced the Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 2nd class.

-The Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 3rd and 4th class should've disapeared considering re establishment of the Order of Alexander Nevsky.

-The Order of St George replaced the Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 1st class with swords.

-The Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 1st class with swords replaced the Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 2nd class with swords.

-The Order "For Merit to the Fatherland 3rd and 4th class with swords should've disapeared considering the existence of the Order "For Military Merit".

Er... Bud... Your link must've been in cyrillic because it leads to a page on the ampersand... :whistle:

Frank, actually you can go to jail for selling and buying RF or Soviet awards inside Russia

I thought the limitations were strictly on export... No??

Then I know 4 or 5 dozen collectors who better pray the militia doesn't start logging onto the faleristics forums.

Strongly disagree

The harder the restrictions - the higher the prices and vise versa ...

That's why soviet phaleristiks costs less even at Ukrainian market

Restrictions? What restrictions? I'm talking about prices within Russia. Outside of Russia, sure, it's illegal to export them and they don't come up very often, outside of Russia the prices would be higher.

All that you say above is true and common knowledge for ODMs in any country. I've been following Russian and Ukrainian auction and dealer web sites for well over 10 years, the Russians undervalue Ukrainian awards, the Ukrainians undervalue Russian awards... Although harder to find nowadays, lower prices weren't that rare then.

As for a market, that's the prob, it is solely in Russia proper when dealing with State Awards (read again, I was quite clear about state, not ministerial), hence my statement, the market simply isn't there... The statement was, and must be taken in comparison with other ODM markets, Soviet or otherwise, in other words, a World market. Russian law prohibits this, the prices should stagnate very quickly has there isn't much chance of this changing in the near future.

I've seen so many dealers asking for a high price for a medal stating it was the market price. If the darn thing isn't selling, then it isn't the market price. I wanted to purchase 2 Canadian coronation medals a few weeks ago at a gun show, they were $125 each, the seller said that's what they were worth because that's the price everybody was asking for them. I replied: and nobody's selling any of them... And I walked away with the schmuck scratching his head.

The back inscription says:

I memory of the "du Fouratier" (?) post of the Foreign Legion.

In honnour of an old and loyal servant.

signed Captain something

(Just a guess, seems to say) Innsbruck 3/3/1949

Your assumption of a period repair, IMHO, might not be that. Looking at the medal, its attachment and ribbon, I'd bet on a 100% local indigenous manufacture (Moroccan).

A great find!! :jumping:

For $150?

In this case we are talking about very special friend

They've jumped around from $75 to $500 for no good reason whatsoever save the greed and/or stupidity of some sellers and buyers. The market simply isn't there, and taking into account how many have been awarded and are available for sale out there, these multi hundred dollar prices are nonsensical.

Paul, I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if you found an original for sale outside of Russia. Stay away from eBay for anything claiming to be a state award, 99.99% are copies. You'll find ministerial and departmental awards, but not original Russian state awards unless you're incredibly lucky.

If you're really serious about getting one of these, you'll need somebody in Russia willing to buy it for you and ship it to you at his own risk. It is still illegal to export them.

I am very sorry man ...

http://auction-su.co...auction_details

... Don't feel sorry. I knew before buying it. $14...

Correct, the comment on the Russian forum is that both the cross and mount are fakes.

Unfortunately, the seller says his camera doesn't allow him to take bigger pictures that are not blurred.

I cannot comment on the cross, I simply don't have the required experience in Imperial Russian awards... But as Igor suggests, you may want to be a bit weary of a seller making such a statement... I can take better pictures with my cheap cell phone! Considering the price one would pay for a real Cross of St George with original mount, you'd think the seller would make an effort to accomodate a potential buyer's curiosity wouldn't you?

CAVEAT EMPTOR! (= FAIS GAFFE!)

Like I said, originally, yes, Order "For Merit to the Fartheland" was the successor to the Order of Lenin for both civilians and military but now... It's a gold watch for civil servants and military personnel who don't have high enough political connections to get a St Andrew or St George.

Wow! I had no idea they were so many different ones! And they seem to be in awesome shape! How fascinating! Thanks for showing us these great great items! :jumping:

That`s one strange equality matching ...

Don`t you think that higher classes of order "For Merits to the Fartheland" will be a better variant?

Honestly, I'm suprised the Order "For Merit to the Fartheland" wasn't cancelled following the re establishments of the Orders of St Andrew and of St George. It went from the top Russian award to now merely being used to reward people who don't quite merit the 2 latter.

Neg, IMHO it replaced the Order of the Red Banner. I believe the all encompassing Order of Lenin was replaced by the Order of Andrew the Apostle the First Called.

So Rob... You collect trivets... And your wife collects... Heavy machine guns?

Oh and Peter...

What, this one? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/gallery/image/3524-order-for-valour/

Not that difficult to find... Not that expensive either... Below $150

When I find one, I'll try real hard to make it 2.

I was wondering if, considering the shape of the eagle, this might be a piece dating back to the 1870-1890 period...?

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