TacHel

Looks like an extremely high quality product! Congrats, very sweet acquisition! :cheers:

Actually, yes, great info! :)

Great pics! I love originals like this that were never previously published. The Spit profile is simply superb!!

My guess on the wreck is a late model 109, from the shape of the burned out elevators.

I have not seen too many of these. When they are found, how much does a basic dupilicate(non attributed) ORB go for on today's market?

I got this some years ago at a very reduced price out of gratitude for helping a lady catalog and price a quite substancial collection for auction. I have no idea what this would go for at today's prices.

Jeffskea and Sailor Ed,

We're all in agremment... (I think)... Quite an achievement in itself!

Like mentioned above, only a person awaiting an ED at the very tip of the 20 years of service might've been able to slide a bar within the 3 1/2 years the KC bar could've been available for award. But also as mentioned above, this would've required enlistment in 1929-30 and a waiver for pre 1939 service. Imagine how few people (if any) might've been on the list?

I've seen KC bars before, I think I may even have bought one at a gun show in Saskatoon 25-30 years ago, I'll have to check my "trinkets" box, but never have I seen one mounted on a CD that actually belonged on that CD... :unsure:

The GVI CD was only awarded for a short while. It is impossible for anybody to have received a CD bar with a King's crown.

The above statement made in a previous post is not correct. While not common there are many examples of GVI CDs with KC clasp. In fact I have two in my personal collection.

Ed

Sailor Ed, sorry, but to me, from experience, after what I've been told and found in records, your set on the picture cannot exist as such, it is a mathematical impossibility. The only explanation I can come to is that already produced examples of KC bars were used until exhaustion of stocks, but for your fellow to have received one 10 years after a GVIR CD, sorry, but I find that verging on the impossible. Your fellow should have an Efficiency Medal and a GVIR CD with no bar, that would make sense, the rack on the pic does not.

The Colonial Permanent Forces LSGC medal was introduced in 1909 for NCOs and men, it was replaced by the Canadian Efficiency Medal in December 1931. The Canadian Forces Decoration (CD) superceded all other awards on 15 December 1949 and was first awarded on 1 September 1951 with GVIR and only until 1954 when the EIIR version came out. So it was only awarded for a maximum of 3 1/2 years with the GVIR effigy. This makes the award to anybody of a KC bar impossible unless exhausting old stock which I find extremely difficult to even imagine, its too easy to remelt them. Seems more likely they were sold and merchants simply slapped them on existing sets...

Considering years of service against the Efficiency Medal (up to 12 years) or a bar (up to 6 years) to it (not already awarded) counted against the CD, any eligible member to a GVIR CD, if presented the medal at the very first investiture on 1951, could not have acquired an additional 10 years for a bar in those 3 1/2 years. Mathematically, the first ever possible recipient of a bar to a CD would've occured in 1962!!!

I am unaware of any account, written or oral, stating the C.D. could physically replace previously awarded LSGC awards, by that I mean the Efficiency Medal would be physically removed from the rack and replaced by a CD with bar(s). As a matter of fact, quite the opposite, I started mounting medals while stationed in Moose Jaw in the early 80s and my mentor in the trade was the retired wartime RSM of the Sask Dragoons. He had the EM with 2 bars and a CD with no bar. I mounted dozens and dozens of sets from the Prairies in my 5 years there and it was always as such. Same when I was in the Maritimes. I mounted medals for over 20 years, this rule was omnipresent. The same principle applied to the Efficiency Decoration, just in case the old chap had been commissioned from the ranks, still impossible.

If I am incorrect, I would (truly) love to see old regs concerning this. But my personnal experience and knowledge of regs tell me that no KC CD bar was EVER issued.

Very nice, and thanks for the link to the recipient's site. I was a cadet for 5 years, instructed them for 22 more and didn't even know this award existed...

I can understand this award in the 50s and 60s... But you kind of wonder why it isn't outright replaced by the Medal of Bravery (or higher) of our present awards system open to all citizens regardless of age...?!?

You drew that? WOW! I am so deeply impressed!! What an incredible talent!

Looks simply magnificient!

I was rescanning and reframing some of my collection when I rediscovered this sweet ORB.

I was told the "D" below the serial number stood for "duplicate" as this was actually a replacement for a lost or stolen item, is this correct?

If this is so, does this make the Order less attractive to potential buyers? Or does it, on the other hand increase the Order's value due to the rarity of such "duplicates"?

I fully endorse Paul's assessment... Steer well clear of this "thing".

Chris, not to rub it in... Well, maybe just a little...

I had forgotten to mention it also included the LSGC medals of the State Fire Service of the Ministry of Emergency Situations... Sorry for this oversight...

I am seeking info, opinions, ideas, anything to shed some light on a recent Decree of the President of the Russian Federation that has had me scratching my head for months now, and since my hair was already thinning quite nicely on its own... I've asked on a few Russian forums but opinions differ enough to cancel out any predominant train of thought.

Below are the seven State Commemorative medals of the Russian Federation issued to date.

Top row: 65 years of Victory, 60 years of Victory, 50 years of Victory.

Bottom row: 300 years of the Russian Navy, 300 years of St Petersburg, 1000 years of Kazan, 850 years of Moscow.

Presidential Decree 1099 dated September 7, 2010 states the following at para 3:

3. Establish that commemorative medals of the Russian Federation, awards established by federal authorities and other federal government agencies, public authorities of the Russian Federation, public and religious associations are not state awards of the Russian Federation.

Presidential Decree 1099 is a huge document that took me weeks to translate, it completely revamps the Russian (state) awards system. The gist of the para is pretty clear, commemoratives are NOT to be considered awards in the recognition/reward sense of the word, not a problem. I even understand why this was added to the decree. The highest awards of the Russian Federation often require any potential recipient to have previously been awarded state awards of a lower grade, because of the poorly written initial decrees on this subject, I can well imagine many actually ineligible candidates for high state awards pointing to the fact these "commemoratives" were in fact mentioned as "state awards"; and since many of these commemoratives were given (notice I didn't say "awarded") to very prominent citizens such as company CEOs and friends of politicians, I'm sure this problem arose more than a few times.

But here's the problem... These commemoratives are still established, produced and dished out under the authority of the state, yet the document (1099) makes no more mention of them at any point, to the extent of not even having them in the order of precedence! Even Presidential Decree 1631 of December 16, 2011 which officialised the new order of precedence of Russian Federation awards makes no mention of them.

Some are of the opinion, which I strongly disagree with, that these are gone, not to be worn anymore, history, finito... The shear numbers given, the depth of social strata involved make this idea completely inane IMHO.

But where would they now go on one's medal bar? State awards go in front of everything else, even the lowest state award goes in front of the highest ministerial award, but these aren't state awards anymore even though they still come from the state... They stay where they always were at the rear end of state awards (albeit with their new designation) or retreat to the far back with all of the other ministerial, departmental, regional, municipal commemoratives?

(Fetching some Aspirin...)

The all mighty $ strikes again...

It makes it official though, honour is an acquired trait, it isn't passed on through one's genes.

There is something to be said about recognition for the "scope dopes" who worked the Pinetree, Mid-Canada, and DEW Lines. While the R.C.A.F. did its best to create little communities, most bases were miles from anywhere.

I fully agree. As a member of the CFB Moose Jaw volunteer band (years ago!), we'd get bussed way up North to play for them, usually for Oktoberfests... Some of those places were quite desolate to say the least...

I figure only personnel from operational CF-100 and later CF-101 squadrons and radar stations (and old BOMARC units) would've received it. Must've been a few old transport command generals on the board peeved at not being up for it so they killed it...

JP, for years they talked about a NORAD clasp for the SSM but nothing ever came out of it.

Laurence, that "parody list" came out in 1997... I did it. :cool:

Very nice! :)

You really begin to piss me off with your bragging tac

You think I didnt get a 2nd part to MY x-mas present?

Well think again.... the nice romantic bathtowel I got for X-Mas from the wife.... includes a facecloth she picked up on sale the week after X-Mas.....

So THERE!

I'm thrilled for you Chris! Did she splurge and also get you the matching slippers?

Want me to call Medvedev? He still owes me $20... ;)

Thanks for the photos TacHel. What is this medal(or is it an Order) awarded for? Is yours numbered?

Neg, mine isn't numbered, it's bran new un issued. I doubt a single numbered one as yet to hit the market, the award is only 6 1/2 years old.

More here: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/gallery/image/5925-fso-medal-for-distinction-in-the-performance-of-special-assignments/

I am sitting down... But am thinking of going and writing about South Africa instead, last night I found where they have all their regulations! Seriously, thanks... Do you have a copy (or link to) the decree, please?

Link to the Order on the site of the President of Russia Multiple pages!

Link to GARANT Legal Archives - same Order Just as long but on a single page. Both are in Russian.

To be honest, most books I've purchased over the years have proven to be quite disapointing.

If you're interested in Imperial German uniforms, helmets, caps... I strongly suggest Tony Schnurr's web site!

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/index2.htm

You won't believe this guy's collection! And Tony's a great guy, he guided me through my 1st pickelhaube purchase.

Cheers!

Very sweet! :love:

Meg... Hope you're sitting down... They changed it again... Not that bad, 2 moves, Order of Frienship and Medal of Ushakov.

New 2011 Order of Precedence of State ODMs by Presidential Decree 1631 dated 16 December 2011.

Order of St. Andrew;

Order of Saint George;

Order "For Merit";

Order of Alexander Nevsky;

Order of Friendship;

Order of Suvorov;

Order of Ushakov;

Order of Zhukov;

Order of Kutuzov;

Order Nakhimov;

Order of Courage;

"Order for Military Merit";

"Order for Naval Merit";

Order of Honor;

Order of Parent Glory

----

St George Cross;

Medal of the Order "For Merit";

Medal "For Courage";

Medal of Suvorov;

Medal of Ushakov;

Zhukov Medal;

Medal of Nesterov;

Medal of Pushkin;

Medal "Defender of a Free Russia";

Medal "For Distinction in the Protection of Public Order";

Medal "For Distinction in the Protection of the State Border";

Medal "For Life Saving";

Medal "For Work in Agriculture";

Medal "For the Development of the Railways";

Medal "For Merit in Space Exploration";

Medal of the Order of "Parental Glory".