Troy Tempest

Someone from another (non-collectors) site I frequent bought his first piece of militaria and asked if anyone knew anything about it, so I thought I'd ask the experts! I tried to post the photo here but it's 112.5 kb, 2.5kb too large for here! Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

I'm hoping I don't have to tell him his first piece is a fake!

http://worldwartwozo...1694#post131694

Hi gents, and first of all I know this may be hard to answer without photos, but as I have no good ones yet I'll try anyway. I have two that have a M or W on the ribbon ring. Now, all my EKIIs have the makers mark reading from the inside of the ribbon ring up towards the outside of the ribbon ring. The top of the letter would be on the outside of the ring, with the bottom of the letter on the inside of the ring. Does this make sense?

But my two 'W' EKs have different W's on the ribbon ring, and they have different date positions on the cross. One has the 1914/1813 dates at the bottom of the cross, the other has a gap of a few mm between the bottom of the cross and the bottom of the year. The actual numbers in the years are also different. They also have different W's or M's on the ribbon ring.

If my maker is read like all my other ones, would the maker Wagner have two different styles of crosses and makers marks? Or could one be an 'M' not a 'W'? If it was an M, it would be the first one I have that the makers mark is upside down on the ring compared to the others in my collection, (though to be fair I only have 15 so I'm not sure if they are all uniform in how the makers mark is stamped on the rings).

I am leaning towards that one is an 'M', even though it is upside down so to speak, as it looks like an M not a W, it has vertical lines not angled like a W, and I thought that would account for the different style of cross. The crowns also differ slightly. Were all makers marks stamped uniformly, read the same way on all EKs or not? Sorry again for no photos!

Thanks Micha, I tried to count the beads to see if was a ninth beader, but wasn't sure from the photo, but that was something else I was keeping an eye out for.

side

rear

Ok gents, I'm trying to put into practice what I've learnt lately about fake 1870 EKIIs, is this one a fake? I'm thinking about the under-over "8" and is the jump ring too low? Does it also have a new ribbon? Have I been paying attention?

Hi, I have some photos of the 1870 EKII but they are all over 100kb, how can I post them for some advice please?

Thanks mate, I wasn't sure about the apparent quality of the eagle and swastika etc. Appreciate the tip and if I win it, I'll post better photos of it here.

Thanks for that tip Pete, I've learnt something new! And thanks for the photos of your real ones.

Hello gents, any thoughts on how this looks?

No. A fake.

Pete

Hi Pete, could you tell me why it's a fake?

one more shot

Here is my WHW Spendendose Südhann.Braunschweig, this was one of the collection tins that they shook under your nose if the SA men noticed you weren't wearing the latest item or items for sale It is for the region of South Hannover and Brunswick. Give for the Fatherland comrades!

And my Deutscher Turnerbund ohne Flagge

Here is my Deutscher Turnerbund mit Flagge

Here is my NSS (Nationalsozialistische Schwesternschaft/NS Sisterhood) Mutter und Kind Tag der Rose cloth donation badge.

Kev and Heiko, perhaps someone could send myself and Tony a PM explaining what we should be looking for, I accept the clasp is a fake, but still have no idea why, or what I could/should look for in the future. I'm here to learn!

Thank you all gentlemen, I have learnt more in the last 24 hours about spotting or attempting to spot fake 1870 EKIIs than I thought I would! I thought it best to ask about the ribbon, as I have a new found alertness! The photo of the one for sale doesn't show the crown clearly, I've asked him for better photos. If I get them I'll post them here. Thanks again!

WOW!! 11.00 euros for an EKI with oak leaves

you learn something new everyday!

Just saw on a German site an 1870 EKII with non-combatant ribbon, was that ever the case? I have a 1914 EKII with that ribbon, was it common or uncommon or unlikely that the same thing happened in 1870? Or has he just got the wrong ribbon on?

sorry to bumb in like this ,,, (aim almost never on this forum)

but this ek is interesting ,, a hard nut so to speak ...

but I do have a price list from Deutscher offiziers verein from 1902 ,

were they advertise with all sorts off 1870 rewards ,,including ek1 and 2

(so aim always on the watch fore ek's that maybe, can be from that time )

just wanted you all to know that there are also 1902 period ek1 1870 and 2's

al do I don't think its NOT up to the quality DOV provided to its members in general in those day's

but who knows what more jewellers where producing rewards in those day's

( the soldering wood be interesting to see )

hope its no useless info

regards kay

Hi kay, out of interest, how much was an 1870 EKI and EKII in 1902?

I'd like to throw my thanks in as well, I am starting to take an interest in 1813 and 1870 EKIIs, and also had no idea of what 9 bead meant until now!

Hi Heiko, I know it's got the wrong ribbon, but can you tell me why the clasp is a fake please?

Thank you Chip and thanks for that link Naxos.

It's a Hindenburg Cross ribbon I believe? The ribbon is folded like an Austrian award isn't it? Any Austrians in Palestine?