Richard LaTondre

List the link I would be interested in visiting the site as I own a Manhattan Percussion Navy Revolver

Tell Mike that Dick LaTondre says "Hello"

http://www.manhattanfirearms.com/

Here is what it might be 'based on just one photo and an incomplete description.'

Manhattan Firearms Company, of New York (to 1863) and Newark New Jersey, c. 1861-8. 22; seven shot. A near-facimile of the Smith & Wesson No. 1 with a cylinder-catch on the lower part of the frame instead of the upper. The American Standard Tool Company arose from a reorganisation of this company.

A.B. Zhuk

This pistol has a spur trigger, chambering a rimfire cartridge 'that was the first type of metal-cased cartridge', the gun when in up hinged position should allow the barrel to be removed.

Thank you very much for your help.

I went to Google and typed in 'Manhattan Firearms', and found a collector who has a web page.

Thanks

Richard

Thank you, Richard. I was looking for those references, but my JOMSA back-issue files are in such chaos these days . . . .

Hello Ed:

The Order of the Golden Grain and the Order of the Most Precious Brilliant Golden Grain, are perhaps two of the most beautiful orders, as well as two of the most misunderstood Orders of the Republican Period. The article that I quoted for Lilo is from my forthcoming book "The Orders and Medals of China" which I have decided to publish in the very near future. I have at least a chapter devoted to the subject as well as the actual medals of President Yuan Shik'ai.

Best Regards,

Richard

The Order of the Golden Grain (Chiaho) was instituted on 29 July 1912 by President Yuan Shikai for outstanding civil or military achievement. This Order became obsolete and was replaced by the Order of the Brilliant Jade in 1929, by order of President Chiang KaiShek. It was conferred in nine classes.[1] The First and Second Classes were distinguished by the badge of the order suspended from a yellow sash with white edges plus a breast star. The width of the Second Class sash is narrower and the breast star is smaller in diameter than the First Class sash and breast star. In 1916, a special Second Class was instituted that omitted the sash and sash badge. The Third Class was identified by the badge of the order suspended from a red neck ribbon with white edges. The Fourth through Ninth Class insignia consisted of the badge of the order suspended from different colored breast ribbons as follows: Fourth Class, red with white edges and adorned with a rosette. Fifth Class, red with white edges. Sixth and Seventh Classes, blue with red edges. Eighth Class, white with red edges. Ninth Class, black with white edges.

The badge of the order is a star of eight groups of ascending rays in white enamel with a large circular medallion in the center. Each group of rays has three rays edged in silver and each ray has a silver center line. The medallion contains five standing sheaves of grain in green and yellow enamel on a white enamel background. Surrounding the medallion is a narrow turquoise band edged in gilt with small red, yellow, blue, white, and black dots. These are the colors of the flag of the Chinese Republic, which consisted of five horizontal stripes of red, yellow, blue, white, and black. In the center of the reverse of the badge is a circular medallion of the same size as the medallion on the obverse. The reverse medallion contains four Chinese characters in gilt on a red enamel background that translate as "Order of the Golden Grain." The breast star is the badge of the order superimposed over a large star of eight groups of ascending rays in faceted silver. The reverse is plain with a hinged vertical pin flanked by a vertical hook pin. Stamped in a square in the center is ""Made by Silver Bureau" in Chinese Characters. The sash, neck, and breast badges are suspended from a device of two adjoining silver cloud symbols. This order was abolished by the Nationalist Government in 1929 and replaced by the Order of the Brilliant Jade. [2]

[1] Kwok, King "Orders of the Golden Grain and Precious Brilliant Golden Grain Republic of China (1912 ? 1929) The Journal of the Orders and Medals Society of America Vol. 53, No. 3 (May-June 02) States that he believes there is an additional class to both the Order of the Golden Grain and the Order of the Precious Brilliant Golden Grain.

[2] Hong, Henry "Chinese Warlord Period Awards" The Journal of the Orders and Medals Society of America Vol. 52, No .2(Mar-Apr01): 19-24.

Hello All,

I would like to ask your help to exactly identify the Chinese Orders Given to some High ranking British Generals for the WW1.

In particular on the London Gazette of 17 FEBRUARY, 1920, I found the following entries :

the KING has given unrestricted permission to wear the Decorations and medals conferred by his excellency the president of the Republic of China:

Order of Chia-Ho.

1st Class.

"Ta-Shou Pao-Kuang"

To Field-Marshal Douglas, Earl Haig

Order of Chia-Ho.

2nd Class.

"Ta-Shou"

to General Sir John Steven Cowans

Order of Chia-Ho.

1st Class.

To General Sir William Robert Robertson,

My question are :

1) What means the word "Chia-Ho" ?

2) What means the word "Ta-Shou Pao-Kuang" ?

3) What means the word "Ta-Shou" ?

4) It appears that the Order in question is an unic Order named 'Chia-Ho'. What then is the difference between the Chia-Ho Order followed by the words "Ta-Shou Pao-Kuang" or "Ta-Shou" or with nothing as in the case of General Robertson ?

Awaiting to hear from you

Best Regards

Lilo

Does anyone have any information on this revolver?

It states " Manhattan Fire arms Mf'g Co New York"

The pistol is 7" oa in length from grips to front sight. The cylinder appears to be engraved with an Indian war party scene. It is silver and gold plated and the serial number is 631. It appears to be ,22 cal.

Thanks for your time.

Dick LaTondre

There are three levels (and three types of badge)

1. Marksman

2. Sharpshooter

3. Expert

You have Expert in Rifle and Pistol badges . . . both badges have been in service since 1958

Qualification is based on a points system

For Rifle qualification points are as follows:

220 to 250 points -- Expert

210 to 219 points -- Sharpshooter

190 to 209 points -- Marksman

I do not know the numbers for Pistol qualification, but it's on a similar scale

Typically, all Marines qualify with the rifle on an annual basis

The most recent qualification score determines the badge that is worn (higher or lower)

If a Marine achieves the score of Expert multiple times in his or her career, an additional "rung" may be added to the badge denoting the number of awards earned

Hope this helps

Excellent response David. I only have a couple of interesting things to add. These badges have been in official service since, at least, 1900. They were issued to me in 1946 when I happily left Parris Island for R&R in China. Of interest is that the only changes made to these medals is the depiction of the current service rifle. The rifle expert badge issued in 1946 displayed the M1 Garrand. Previously it was the Springfied 03A1. I have in my collection a rifle expert badge from the 1890s that depicts the short lived 30-40 Krag that covered the Spanish American War and the Boxer Rebellion. I am not certain about the pistol badge except from WWI till I retired it was a depiction of the .45 Cal ACP. I do not know if the Beretta was shown on the curent models.

The Marine Corps has always strived for excellence in marksmanship training. There are higher level marksmanship badges that are worn by Distinguished marksman that are given at division and higher shooting events. The most prestigious being the Lochheimer trophy awards given in gold, silver, and bronze.

Semper Fi

Dick LaTondre

CWO, USMC, Ret

Why would you not divulge the name of the source?

I cannot post these items as I am limited to 110 kb! This is sub-par resolution.

The size of the jpg images are, 179 kb,155 kb, 227 kb, 317 kb, and 281 kb because of the restrictions you must go to the OMSA web site if you would like to view the images.

Dick LaTondre

I have received the scans of the reverse of these medals and believe that the Order of the Most Precious Brilliant Star and the 2nd Class sash badge are authentic. I have doubts on the Striped Tiger 1st Class and 2nd Class Breast Badges as well as the 'cased' Order of the Golden Grain 1st Class Breast Star.

I try not to use names of non-forum members. Just me. (Although anyone who knows the ohaleristic trade in UB knows him.)

Why not post these items to the forum if you want to discuss them? You may have to do resizing and editing but, stilll, . . . ???

Imperial Chinese awards turn up from time to time in Ulanbaatar, often things that have from up from the Southern Neighbor. And, with so many things coming out of China these days, some are legitimate and some are not. And, as you know, you need to be very careful.

Why would you not divulge the name of the source?

I cannot post these items as I am limited to 110 kb! This is sub-par resolution.

The size of the jpg images are, 179 kb,155 kb, 227 kb, 317 kb, and 281 kb because of the restrictions you must go to the OMSA web site if you would like to view the images.

Dick LaTondre

Oh, then these are others, from another person. I know of whom you speak. He had intended to come to this years OMSA but, alas, did/could not.

His name is Chin Zorig.

I have asked for scans of the reverse. At this point I believe that the Orders of the Gplden Grain and Orders of the Most Precious Golden Grain may be authentic. The Order of the Striped Tiger First Class Breast Badge is suspect as well as one of the other medals in the case.

You may want to view these medals prior to discussing them on the forum.

I think you'll see these have already been posted and discussed. Besides being very damaged the authenticity has been challenged by some and affirmed by others, some of whom know their stuff and some of whom don't. The amount of bluster surrounding Chinese awards is amazing.

I think I have posted them here and on teh OSMA site, back in the day when I spent time there.

The custodian has been kept up to date with the massive confusion surrounding these awards, which I photographed in his flat.

Due to damage, if nothing else, I fear for their market value, which may be his ultimate plan.

With due respect, I believe you are quite mistaken. I received this email earlier today and posted it to the web site ASAP. None of these medals have been damaged. Have you viewed the pictures? They are on the OMSA website. I don't believe that I am able to upload the images on this site as there may be a limit imposed by nature of one's membership status. I met the gentleman that sent these to me at the OMSA convention last year in Scottsdale.

I recently received an eMail from someone I had met from Mongolia. He was asking me the value of the attached medals. The Orders of the Golden Grain, and the Most Precious Golden Grain appear stunning. The First Clas Breast Star of the Striped Tiger, as well as some of the others look suspect. Any comments?

I do not seem to be able to attach the images, but they can be seen at the OMSA site:

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2080

I recently received an eMail from someone I had met from Mongolia. He was asking me the value of the attached medals. The Orders of the Golden Grain, and the Most Precious Golden Grain appear stunning. The First Clas Breast Star of the Striped Tiger, as well as some of the others look suspect. Any comments?

A real surprise to see a Japanese Golden Kite!

Thanks,

Dick

Sorry Hugh:

The system would not allow me to upload the images.

Dick

You are correct in both instances. What I had attempted to show was the reverse of the medal which had no hallmarks and was a dull grey silver color. In fact, the front view ahows the total lack of gilt on the medal.

Dick

Order of the Striped Tiger First Class Sash Badge This item recently appeared on eBay. There were no bids.

Besides the over priced starting bid, can anyone spot the probable reason this item did not sell?

Dick LaTondre

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=019

A good site for researching early Japanese documents such as military transfer orders, promotions, medals, awards,and wartime subjects can be found at:

http://www.jacar.go.jp/english/index.html

This is the web site for the Japanese National Archives.

Richard LaTondre

Hello,

I think the best German name for this instrument would be a WINKELMESSER or gunner's quadrant . More pictures would be a big help .

Best Regards,

Joe

That is correct. In the Marine Corps they were used to lay down fields of fire for the machine guns.

Dick

If it is an inclonometer, it would have to be for land use, I should imagine.

I would agree for the most part. However, on a submarine, or destroyer, etc., during a reconnaisance mission it could provide data on items near shore such as antennas, smokestacks, buildings, fjords, cliff altitudes etc. Using the pythagorean theory.

Dick

I believe it is an inclimometer.

Dick

Whoops! I meany inclinomter also called a clinometer. A simple device used to measure angles but used primarily on land.

I believe it is an inclimometer.

Dick

Many thanks, that would be grand. Do you actually have the breast star?

And do you expect to publish all three volumes any time soon?

The first volume (Book I "The longest Journey") Will be published in a limited run of 500 in about 90 days.

Book II "The Boxer Rebellion" and Book III "The Golden Kite" Hopefully by the end of the year.

I've just re-opened the Golden Kite page, and I don't see the picture of the breast star. What happened? I was particularly interested since I actually had a chance to buy one in Tokyo about 10 years ago (at Mori Shokai's place). It was absolutely magnificent, huge and colorful and far too expesnsive for me, but I'll never forget it. I'd love to see your picture of it again.

Once again this is a very early draft copy of the book. The book has since been completed and sent to the Library of Congress for the copyright procedures. You are right, the Golden Kite Breast star is a gorgeous meda and is featured in the frontpiece of the book. I will send you a picture of it.

Best Regards,

Dick

Thanks for the heads-up ! It looks like a great read ! I'll be printing it out for my night table. (Should I send royalties?)

Thanks again,

Hugh

No royalties. Remember, it is a draft first copy.

Dick