Richard LaTondre

Here is the First Class Breast Star.

Gentlemen:

While we are all gathered I have some questions regarding this medal that some of you may be able to answer. In the past, this medal has been called the Wu Pei Fu Merit Medal, The Chang Tso Lin Merit Medal, The Bravery Medal, and lastly, the Golden Lion. I love this medal, especially the red tongue with the characters that read red gall for audacious bravery. Additionally, I believe, only on the basis of the medals structure and design, that it was issued by the government. Is this correct? Gavin did some additional research on this medal but I have forgotten where it is. I appreciate any comments. Thank You.

Richard

Gentlemen:

We are all learning so much from the both of you. Please dont be offended by each other's viepoint.

Richard

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If you want to know more about this gentleman see:

www.thegoldenkite.com

Richard

Did you do any research on the recipient?

Thanks for sharing.

Richard

I think the idea of dating a medal to the case that it is in, could be quite risky!

Richard

Good Morning Daryn. You may want to consider the use of aluminum versus wartime availability in the dating of the case. Just a thought.

Richard

Excellent dissertation!

Richard

Excellent Information. Thank you.

Richard

Thanks, Richard and Gavin,

I'm the current owner of the pieces, but they are in a frame, which means I don't have a picture of the back. To the best of my recollection, there is no number on the back. I bought it in '05 from a dealer in the Beatles home town. The "cross" does not appear to be vermeil, but is a silver color. It was described as follows: "Imperial Order of the Double Dragon, 2^nd Type (1900-1911), 2^nd Class, 3^rd Grade, Neck badge and star in silver/gold and enamel, EF."

Best,

Hugh

Hugh the pieces look good. You should have no reason for concern.

Richard

The photo is not good because the low lighting affects the colors. I would also need to see the back and know the current location of the seller.

Richard

show back side

That is of very old manufacture made in the early 1900s.

Could you tell me where you found it?

Richard

This example shows the complete 2nd Class set. The example that ClaretBaron depicted is quite old. It would be of great interest as to where he obtained his example. I would expect it came from a museum or private collection as it is very old.

Hello Hugh:

A possible answer to your query might be that as the awards lower in rank they become less ornate in design. I will attempt to attach two other examples.

Richard

Sorry for the triple insertation, but this shows the original vermeil finish on the petals. So as you can see it is a very nice award.

www.thegoldenkite.com

Hello Hugh:

A possible answer to your query might be that as the awards lower in rank they become less ornate in design. I will attempt to attach two other examples.

Richard

www.thegoldenkite.com

That is a beautiful acquisition, congratulations and thank you for sharing the picture with us.

Richard

Richard,

This item as well as our Order of the Red Banner, 5th Award and our United Glory were purchased when a gentleman (think of Bernie Madoff on a slightly smaller scale) had his possesions (including his entire medal and award collection) confiscated and sold.

Thank you for your comments and input as we attempt to learn more about these aquisitions. It is truly appreciated.

Dave

Thank you Dave for your kind remarks. Together we all learn by sharing each other's experiences that is the beauty of these forums. One thing that I have learned since I first became interested in medals is that if I had $500.00 to invest in medals and I was just starting, I would be better off spending $400.00 on good reference books and $100,00 on medals.

Welcome to the world of collecting.

Richard

Well, there are many designs of the grain plant.. but the only thing that is different is the border. I have seen aqua blue color. I think I have only seen one green version, but yours is not clear enamel though.

The reverse is highly polished which seems to be good so far. The middle layer is gilded which looks good too. Seems the markings on the reverse is lacking, although there could be variations.

at least the clip is not the paperclip type clip.

I am glad that you are happy with it as that is what is most important. May I ask you again, where did you find this medal.

Thank You for sharing your experience with all of us.

Best Regards,

Richard

It looks suspect. The Order of the Golden Grain has three green leaves on the left and three green leaves on the right. The upermost leaves curve downward. Not upward. The back is normally gilded with the bureau hallmark. Could you tell us where you purchased your medal?

Richard

pictures of the Golden Grain are quite common and are available on the internet as well as the OMSA Medal Data Base.

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4964

I recently aquired this Order of the Golden Grain but have found very little information about it. Can anyone offer any information?

Thank you.

My link

It looks suspect. The Order of the Golden Grain has three green leaves on the left and three green leaves on the right. The upermost leaves curve downward. Not upward. The back is normally gilded with the bureau hallmark. Could you tell us where you purchased your medal?

Richard

Hello Brian.

This brings to mind a very interesting story that I heard several years ago when I was at the San Jose OMSA convention. There was a dealer selling Golden Kites and Rising suns from 7th class through 4th class. These medals were in gleaming, sparling condition with original wrapped papers identifying their class. There were no boxes. I purchased two Golden Kites 6th and 7th Class, plus one Rising Sun 4th class. I did not have enough money to purchase more at the time. I asked the seller about the origin of the medals and he told me he purchased them from a dealer in Pennsylvania. It was later learned that some more of these medals were being sold on eBay. The Sellers location was in the viciinity of Harrisburg PA. I noticed that several dealers in the vicinity of Carlisle Barracks were also selling what appeared to be the same mint-like Japanese medals. Years passed and I saw the original seller that had sold me the three earlier medals in San Jose at the Scottsdale OMSA show and when I asked him again, the origin of the medals he sold me, he told me that they came from an estate of a deceased army Major who was in the initial group that went ashore in Sakai, Japan. The story continued that he was a coin collector and made a fast end drive to the Osaka mint. Truth or fiction, it is quite a story.

Dick LaTondre

CWO, USMC, Ret.

Richard and HC, thanks for putting this up for discussion.

I'm really struggling to tell the fakes from the genuines which is why I'm very nervous about picking any Chinese items up on ebay.

More confident going through a reputable auction house who not only have the expert staff, but their reputations on the line.

Thanks again, Gavin

We all need to be careful when we enter the arena of older Chinese medals. The more we study them we learn more of their characteristics. There is a lady on the OMSA site that I believe may have purchased a reproduction.

Richard

Modern fake.

From eBay? If so, I think I may know which auction...

*-Oops, didn't see you already mentioned it.-*

I know which seller. He has several medals for sale. Only two of them are real. A 3rd class Cloud and Banner and a Brilliant Star. The Brilliant Star is not WWII, only a Taiwan version and not worth that much. The Cloud and Banner is not worth that much because it is heavily damaged. The rest are the fakes coming out of China. I messaged him about the 7th class Cloud and Banner and told him it was listed wrong and a fake, he just changed the description but did not mention it was still a fake.

I meant to say the dots are going to the right instead of the left.

[Excellent. It appears that the colored dots that represent the colors in the flag of the Chinese Republic are in the wrong direction. They are going "clock-wise" when they should be gpong "clock-wise". Thanks for your input. It is also without the white enameled rays with the gold lines in between and/or the gilded center rays.

Richard La Tondre

Currently being offered on eBay. Any comments?