paul wood

Political award instituted in 1944 by Spanish government.

Most interesting and probably quite scarce, I have frequently encountered various insignia of the order which is generally quite common but never the medals. I wonder what class of people would have received these.

Paul

Hello everyone

Could this gilt metal 4th Class cross of the Order of Saint Wladimir be one of the post Csarist period ? The enamels look quite good and the arms of the cross are bulbeous. No hallmarks as far as I can see.

Anyone have an idea ? I really wonder how one can tell them.

Best regards

Veteran

I am surprised it has no marks, normally bronze-gilt pieces are made either by Eduard or Dmitri Osipov. Having never encountered a provisonal government Vladimir I can only base information on other orders and I would suspect that the Imperial crown on the arms would be lacking, also during the Great War late Czarist period production of insignia was changed from gold to gilt bronze. From the information you have given me my suspicion is that it is a European (quite possibly French) made piece, many of which were produced during the latter part of the war when many allied soldiers who were awarded Russian decorations did not receive the award and during the civil war allied intervention.

All the best,

Paul

check out page 120, item 1140 in the "Illustrated Collection of Badges in the Chinese People's Revolutionary Military Museum" ISBN 7-80603-104-09

Thanks David,

I had never thought of looking there, it is the same piece but with the supension lacking.

Paul

I can't copmment on authenticity or era, but I most definitely agree with you... They are quite irresistible! Very nice find!

Muller is the correct manufacturer for insignia of this period circa 1930 (he was the manufacturer of Latvian orders). From the photo I would give it the benefit of the doubt as I am not aware of Latvian badges being faked, if they are it's a realtively recent development.

Paul

As far as I remember nothing fancy.

I'll post in a couple of days quality photo of 1st class + better quality scan of the article with short translation notes.

Cheers,

Nick

Thanks for all the contributions, especially Fukuoka's

All the best,

Paul

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Amazing, have never seen a cased Hirato piece before, what amazing photos.

Paul

Hi there,

the German wikipedia says that Queen Elisabeth II was the first and till 2006 the only female member of the Royals who did military service.

Sie war das erste und bis 2006 einzige weibliche Mitglied der königlichen Familie, das Militärdienst geleistet hat.

http://de.wikipedia....it.C3.A4rdienst

Who was the second?

I do not mean the honorary rank the female members got.

Thanks

Michael

Michael,

I can't think of any of the close younger female royals who did military service somebody may know of some on the periphary.

Paul

Allemagne clasp

These are clasps for the French World War II commemorative.

Paul

William George was killed on Nov 5 1920 apparently undated. Did Albert have a middle name as this would speed up the search, alas the two numbers you give yield nothing (possibly because there was a prefix to them).

Paul

Meanwhile... of course... this is an Austrian order that dates to the waning days of the Holy Roman Empire. This fake looks pretty good in the photo.

The late Rothe pieces are not fakes per se, they were made for collectors who could not conceivably afford, let alone find, the originals. The quality of manufacture was good. The main problem with the rare Austrian orders made by Rothe in the 50s-70s, is that a certain person in Germany applied false Austrian silver marks to pass them off as original pieces of the Great War period.

An amusing story not related to the above German mentioned. Rothe in the period mentioned was owned by two sisters, the last members of the family. Around the 1960's the late, lamented? master Ernst Blass attempted to marry one of the sisters but without success. Perhaps his line of "What beautiful babies we could make" didn't go down too well.

In my opinion late Rothe pieces are perfectly valid to have in a collection of world orders unless you are a Russian oligarch and can afford the originals.

Bonjour,

Apparently about 400 French soldiers received the Army MSM ?

Crdl

Thierry

460 French soldiers recived the Army MSM, 130 in 1918, 243 in 1919 and 87 in 1920, 7 received the Airforce Meritiorious Service Medal in 1919.

All the best,

Paul

Well, the Kipp label torpedoes it... I called the firm... they never sold anything like this, it is according to the grandson of H Kipp for small spoons or knives... not medals ;-)

There is certainly a sense of Deja vu, haven't we seen this before.

Paul

Hi Paul,

thank you very much for this useful information.

regards,

Pieter

Note however that this will not include any DSCs awarded to French officers for the allied intervention in Russia (assuming there were some).

Paul

Hi Paul,

do you also have the number of Distinguished Service Crosses awarded to french military during the first WW?

Thanks and regards,

Pieter

According to the Navy List January 1920 85 DSCs were awarded to French Naval Officers.

Hope this helps.

Paul

And there are still poor suckers out there who fall for them. Mind you some of them would have looked good on Michael Jackson's jacket.

Paul

..love those old soviet coins, actually some time ago i use to have one mounted on a ring.

"Warm greetings from Mexico"

Strelka.

(sorry my english is really bad, speak spanish? xD!!)

The first soviet silver coins had a lot in common with the late Czarist coins. They contained the silver weight which corresponded with the value of the coin and the edge contains the value in zolotnik and doli (the Russian weight system), so (providing you were literate) you could see exactly how much silver the coin contained (I suspect this was especially important in the eastern and central asian areas), the edge on the first communist coins are virtually identical to those of the Czarist issues of the previous century, there only difference, no Czar. Later as state contralled economics took over the coinage became purely token. The last silver coinage were the 15 and 20 kopecks of 1931. Not until the 1970s when the Soviets released they could get valuable foreign reserves for selling gold and silver coins to foreign investors was any precious metal coin issued.

Paul

Bonjour,

During the WWI, the French soldiers have received the DCM ?

Crdl

Thierry

1,563 French soldiers are recorded as having received the Distinguished Conduct Medal of which 154 were gazetted in the London Gazette of 16th November 1915

IN the second world war 20 were awarded to Free French Forces.

Paul

Wow that is a pretty sexy Agdas.

Paul

To add to what Graf said - I've noticed fakes of high Bulgarian awards started appearing on the market around 2007.

Most of them were offered by a dealer from Bulgaria named Victor. Over the last few years he's been operating on eBay under several names, currently he sells under account "kaissa64".

His tactic is to operate under one name for some time, then close the store and open under different name. Apparently because of the buyers discovering that he sells fakes and probably of complaints they file with eBay.

It shows how markets have changed 20 years ago the fakes would have cost more to produce than the originals were worth.

Paul

This just turned up with a group of world orders and decorations, I wonder if anyone has the faintest idea what it might be?

Thanks in advance.

Paul

So many questions (you)

So few answers (me)

Werlich shows five classes, the first three of which have three grades. I'm not aware of a medal associate with the Order.

I don't read Chinese, but hope that another member will help us.

Most ROC orders have numbers on the reverse which may be traced to a recipient. I'm not so sure about Empire ODM.

Someone more expert needs to join in.

Hugh

Ching Period Medal for Meritorious Deeds and Achievments, several varieties exist, probably manufactured after 1900.

Paul

Reverse.

Unmarked badges in non precious metal are quite difficult, about 20 years ago they presented no problem for the simple reason they were not worth faking, they were easily purchasable at a relatively small price, now that unmarked badges are making several hundred (if a rare regiment or unit even thousands) It is well worth the faker producing them and as you are probably well aware there are extremely good fakes coming out of Russia. Were it silver and hall marked it would be much easier to assess. Fake hallmarks are usually the biggest give away. From the photograph you show I cannot see anything obviously wrong with it but one would need a much higher resolution photograph to have any serious possibility of making an informed decision. I am sorry that I cannot be more exact than this but I hope my contribution is of some help.

Paul

Sorry Mervyn.....

Has to be kept secret...... They can only make so many a day and with 50% of the worlds population being male they would be sold out in seconds.......

Mike

Mike,

I have suggested that our auction house buys it as our new headquarters as we seem to be there a lot of the time.

Paul

This is a rather distressed example of the State Militia badge, Nicholas II issue. I have no reason to doubt its authenticity. The back is hollow as issued and the clips have long since departed. It is probably the most common of Imperial badges and even a nice one should set you back less than $100, hope this helps.

Paul

Dear collector friends

Who can tell more about this badge?

Copy or original?

Who has a complete one and could show the backside?

Thank you!

KDVR

This is a rather distressed example of the State Militia badge, Nicholas II issue. I have no reason to doubt its authenticity. The back is hollow as issued and the clips have long since departed. It is probably the most common of Imperial badges and even a nice one should set you back less than $100, hope this helps.

Paul