paul wood

Hi JB,

You are right about the swords. There is something wrong on it.

Form ewhen I have a doubt I don't buy the cross, just my 2 cents

Christophe

The swords look to be of "later manufacture" added by someone hoping to make a few bob on top, I think the medal itself is probably OK.

Paul

Most people would know Matt Groening as creator of the Simpsons. He is less well known for his creative efforts on Futurama and antique Persian Orders.

It's still an incredibly characterful example and in perfect condition even with the slightly worn ribbon. A worthy addition to your collection.

Markus, no marks on the reverse?

Paul

Hi Mervyn.......

Yes I know that the word is often missused but you will notice I said Possible..... LOL

I have one source that says it was awarded to him in 1920, and another that says it is for services to the Royal Family in 1934......

Mike

See Edinburgh Gazette May 11 1920 pp 1240-41 for the award of St. Sava, Temporary Captain RAMC

Paul

Hi Mervyn.......

Yes I know that the word is often missused but you will notice I said Possible..... LOL

I have one source that says it was awarded to him in 1920, and another that says it is for services to the Royal Family in 1934......

Mike

If it is 1934 then it could relate to the Assassination of Alexander I in Marseilles.

Paul

lets try this one Ebay

josef

Well spotted that man.

Paul

Hell all

Could anyone comment on this medal, obviously mounted to be worn by a lady.

It is the silver Merit Medal for teachers in italian schools established in other countries than Italy. This is clear.

The only reference I could find is Franco SCANDALUZI (Ordine equestri, Medagie e Decorazioni italiane 1962) who mentions a BRONZE medal with a RARE grading. The medal shown in the book is a V.E. III type with the facist reverse.

This one is therefore prior to 1923 AND a silver medal. What is still to be established is its relative rarity and all other information which would help to understand its true nature.

Further information will be gratefully received.

Veteran

Paul,

My guess is that it is a first type Colonial (or Overseas) Educational Merit Medal issued parallel with the Italian 1919 Educational Merit Medal, the style would suggest it.. It is possible that very few were issued, hence it is not in the reference books or alternatively it is a trial piece, I feel though one has to discount the latter as all Italian trials I have encountered from that period are stamped PROVA.

All the best,

Paul

Paul,

the Rentzmann's Wappen Lexicon is for coins, so I think you mean something like a this (*): 03629-WWW.jpg 800 × 400 Pixel

But I'm not sure that your coat of arms is a saxon!??? I can't find it here: Deutsche Wappen - SACHSEN

... or here: German Coats of Arms (Wappen) XVIIth Century A005

Best regards,

Jens

(*): RÖMISCH - DEUTSCHES REICH WELTLICHE HERREN Sachsen - Weimar, Taler 1598, Saalfeld.

mcsearch.info - The medieval & modern coin search engine

..or: Sachsen-Albertinische-Linie ?: Google Übersetzer

Yes, Plate 31 59-71

Paul

Jeff,

I really don't see anything here that would qualify this as Saxon. The only things that are vaguely reminiscent of the Saxon coat of arms are the bars in the right-hand quadrant, but that is a common background in heraldry. I think you will need a real expert on this one.

Best regards,

Chip

Chip the left hand arms are described by Rentzmann's Wappen Lexicon as Saxony, Electorate which dates it prior to 1802, the right hand arms are more confusing because I can't find a coat of arms with a scimitar but certainly of Saxon origin.

Paul

Pictures please Paul...of both cabinet and content

When the photofairy deigns to come into my office. She tends to disappear for two weeks on the trot

Paul

So long as the paper is acid-free paper there should be no problems arising from chemicals that could otherwise cause corrosion to the medal.

Of course you must still be careful - in a humid environment, paper may retain humidity and this may cause other damage!

Regards

Jim

I was lucky enough to purchase a 19th century rosewood collectors cabinet, with lock intact just over 3 foot high (roughly a metre for those who can't hack Imperial measures), with 9 trays deep trays with attractive light wood floral inlay on the front of the drawers and virtually perfect condition. Have lined the drawers with velvet and easily houses my 200+ medals with plenty of room for addition and as a bonus it neatly fits under my desk.. I managed to pick it up for the bargain price of £200. To have such a cabinet purpose made now would cost many time that and it makes it look like I am housing a collection of many years rather than one formed over 6 Years.

All the best,

Paul

Here's an interesting link to the Thai Government's Cabinet Office which has pictures and description in English of the different Thai Royal Orders still being awarded.

My link

I think, looking at the list of recipients, the chance of getting an issued piece is negligible. I know certain past or deposed rulers material has come on the market through some source or other but the list features none of them. I think an unissued specimen is your only chance and that may be available from the official suppliers at a price.

Paul

Thanks Paul for clarifying that and for the Tammann catalogue which has been incredibly useful.

Absolutely fascinating that a badge founded during the Khedivate, and incorporating official Ottoman elements such as the Sultan's Tughra, would continue to be issued right until the Republic. But why change such an elegant design!

Gavin

Many Egyptian medals awarded during the Kingdom had the old Ottoman style designs. Fuad was Khedive from 1917-22 before become King and was a direct descendent of the House of Mohammed Ali which had ruled as Khedives (or Walis) from 1813. Hence I suppose the imagery demonstrated continuity of the the dynasty.

Paul

Thanks gents. I'm a little nervous that it doesn't have any manufacturer's mark on the reverse, unlike the 2008 UBS example.

But it weighs an absolute tonne and was heavily patinated.

And I suspect there are other things one could more profitably reproduce than an obscure Egyptian badge ...

The badges were issued virtually unchanged during the entire period between 1917-52. There were several maker's and early on these would have been also been used in Anglo-Egyptian Sudan. I have seen French made examples, examples by Lattes and also Bichai and I suspect some, like yours may well have been made by local jewellers. I think yours is 100% Halal.

Paul

Don't jump the gun, apparently he's still alive...

http://www.telegraaf...en__.html?p=3,2

And he's chosen a new career: parking attendant in Bogota!

Considering his faith forbids alcohol why was he in a place named after Greene Kings famous Abbott ale, still it could be worse he could have been holed up in Fort Sandeman.

Paul

This thread is useless without pics......

A thousand million is a milliard (as the German banknotes of the 1923-24 period state). A billion is a million a million million. America calls it a thousand million so that they can boast of having a few billionaires.

Paul

Here is a question for a champion....

Medal bar with EK 2, Gold Bravery, MVK2nd class with swords and crown, Hindenburg, Service medal... Missing on the bar is the Gold bravery medal, it must have been a real gold one as it was an early 1915 issue. Seperate with it is an official issue gold plated silver one (the later war one with "1000" and crescent). This is mint and on a long ribbon (ie. probably "as issued").

Also with it EK1, wound badge, 25 year Beamten service cross.

The man was in the LW in WW2, and was killed in an air raid during the war. I assume a beamter, and junior grade officer or senior NCO in WW2.

Medals from the family, in a box since the war...

So, now the question...

What could have happed to the real gold medal? And why an official "Ries" later war award piece loose with it?

1) If the family had flogged the pure gold medal to buy vodka.. why bother to get an official gold plated silver one to replace it? Expensive and NOT easy to find. I find this very unlikely.

2) Did the man himself sell the gold one and get himself a later wartime one?

3) Was there a drive for scrap gold and dutiful soldiers gave in their gold and got a silver one?

4) He seems to have worn the bar in the 1930s... the Gold plated one is in almost perfect nick though...

I have no doubts this is kosher direct from the son, who had it in a box and has had little to do with it since the war...

So... where did it go?

Chris,

I think the answer lies either in his service details. As you are aware in many cases the recipient received a riband immediately on the award , which he wore on his tunic, a long time before he received his medal. If he were to be missing, wounded, or P.O.W. it is possible he never received his gold medal due to this and was given the bravery medal at the end of the war when repatriated or recovered. Or the other possibility is that the during the severe hyperinflation of 1923-24 when by the end 5 billion (that is 5 million million) marks were worth 1 US dollar. He may have been forced to pawn/sell his gold medal in order not to starve.

That's my 2 pfennigs worth.

All the best,

Paul

Owain

Check out this El Rafidain Medal Bar

Air Vice Marshal Neill C. Ogilvie-Forbes O.B.E

- Oder of the British Empire (Officer - Military) 2nd Type

- 1939-45 Star

- WWII Defense Medal

- WWII War Medal (M.I.D.)

- Iraq Order of Rafidain (4th Class)

http://www.eaglesand...vie-Forbes.html

Lorenzo

Owain,

I am glad you got the Iraqi physician group. I noticed on the web but by which time it had just been sold. Very nice.

Paul

hello,

I have a question about the following dekoration,

is this piece an original or a fake?

if it is an original, how many should I pay for it?

greets Alan

Alan,

The badge appears to be a genuine type 2 late suspension post 1943 from the illustration (but without physical examination it is impossible to be 100% certain) and the number ties up with the year in the book.

In order to check whether the book is genuine one needs to look at the writing under an ultra violet light to see whether the writing inside is genuine and not added later. It is a shame that the Order of Lenin is not present with it.

As to price I am not aware of one with such a low number appearing on the open market, normal ones are about £700-1,000 but given the earliness of the award I would have thought it is most likely to be double the low figure possibly more but difficult to be precise.

I hope this is of some help.

Paul

Interesting little group, thanks for posting them.

I was under the impression that the Red Cross Medal was not to be worn with the war medals but worn alone.

Is this correct, or am I wrong? I know that in a lot of cases the veterans did what they wanted with the order of medals and the choice of what medals were to be worn together.

Perhaps one of the members with more knowledge of the regulations regarding the wearing of the Red Cross Medal will voice an opinion.

Thanks again for posting this group.

Regards

Brian

Brian,

You are correct, with the full-sized they could not be worn on uniform. These were worn by a civilian who unless they went to a Palace reception could wear what they liked. With miniature groups in general many weird and wonderful awards are frequently tagged onto groups.

Paul

Hi,

I was acually suprised how much information was available online regarding this unit. But now, when I have main details I am stuck with the research.

Any ideas from where I can find details about his recruit, pervious service before Regiment, etc?

Private Patrick Nee, son of late Thomas Nee and of Bridget Shaughnessy (formerly Nee).

I know he was from Co.Galway, enlisted from Dublin and served first with the Royal Irish Rifles (regimental number 7874). Then transferred to the Royal Irish Regiment, B Coy, 7th (South Irish Horse) battalion in autumn 1917 - new regimental number 18231.

21st March 1918, when Germans launched their Sbring offencive (Kaisers battle), his company (and A company) was swiped out near village of Ronsoy - no one of A & B Coys got back to the rest of the battalion.

Patrick Nee was one of the KIAs. Memorial: Pozieres Memorial, Grave-Memorial Reference: Panel 30 and 31. He was 21 years old.

Now, my main questions:

- because his service number is small and also he was young when he enlisted, can I presume that the Royal Irish Rifles, sart they army regimental numbers from the beginning, when they start recruiting new army battalions?

- is there any sources of his recruitment or main information when and how it worked in Dublin?

- from where or how I can find out which battalion he served with the Rifles?

- does anyone have information how Royal Irish Regiment put together 7th battalion. I know base was from South irish Horse (as battalion name states), who they start using as a regular infantry, but does extra men became from Dubs, Rifles, etc as a volunteers, etc? How they made the selection?

- Any information piece or help would be great!

Thank you in advance,

Timo aka Noor

Timo as to numbers you can never assume anything. When someone left the service his number would be re-allocated to a new recruit. Have you looked up his MIC which should be available on the National Archives. This should answer a few questions.

All the best,

Paul

A

The small items so you don't have to squint.

Long time no hear. Hope you and your family are well. Nice lot of stuff there. The old late 19th/early 20th century photo intrigues me any information about it.

Paul

An interesting order of precedence. I'd have thought the Defence Medal would precede the VAD award.

Hugh

Hugh,

I suspect that the group was originally mounted pre WW2 and when he or she received the Defence Medal just decided to have the bar extended with it bunged on the end although you are technically correct the Defence medal should precede the Red Cross medal.

Paul

Hi Paul

V.A.D ?

Lambert

Volunteer Aid Detachment. These were civilian medical volunteers such as nurses ambulance drivers, doctors etc.

Paul

Very nice Lambert! Congratulations!

Would you mind showing a pic of the reverse as well?

I know very little about British medals so always keen to learn.

Gavin

Very nice, Likely to be V.A.D. during the great war.

All the best,

Paul

There was a thread on these a while back - as I recall there was a bronze, silver, sliver with enamel and gold w/ enamel - these were awarded for contributions to the war effort - sort of a War Aid Cross - there was also a ribbon that the medal was suspended on -

So Scott - does this mean we all have more competition for Hungarian Militaria!??

Thanks for that I wondered why it was difficult to find much information about it this clears it up a bit.

Paul