paul wood

I'll bite! What makes you say 'brooch mounted', Paul? Maybe I need new glasses - or a new brain - but the marks I'd expect aren't leaping off the screen at me.

Peter

Somethings happened to the left and right of the bust which to me looks like a very skilful repair of a brooching. I have seen similar pieces after a well known British repairer has dealt with them.

Paul

Looks OK to me but appears at some stage to have been brooch-mounted (not an uncommon occurrence) and somewhat tidied up.

Named or unnamed?

Paul

Does anyone have a list of producers of Dutch medals and orders for the period ca 1900-1949?

For some time now, I have been trying to find information on the orders and decorations of the Dutch protected principalities and sultanaes in Indonesia during the period. Despite quite a lot of photographic evidence of unique decorations sported by such potentates, I have been insgularly unable to find any information about these decorations. Neither in Indoneisa monarchist groups nor medal collecting groups in Holland, or even publications, have I been able to find anything. So the last throw at the die is to see if I can contact those who would have normally produced decorations for the Dutch government, to see if they have any records of producing any for the local rulers in the Dutch East Indies.

With thanks,

James

M J Goudsmit, Den Haag

Rijksmunt (Dutch Royal Mint)

A Moussalt Amsterdam

J. M. J. van Wielik, Den Haag

Might also be worth contacting the Het Loo museum of Orders in the Netherlands, in Apeldoorn they are very nice and may have some archive material.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Paul

Very beautiful order, does it have a mounting system attached or just the ribbon alone??

Lorenzo

I absolutely concur with Owain as to identification. Mind you one of the most degraded toughras I have seen.

Paul

Paul,

Thanks for your reply but I don't have the piece in hand or available at this time. Could you give me a rough estimate or range.

Thanks again,

Garth

Providing they are in good condition I would reckon between £800 and £1,500 depending on the maker and quality. if damaged less.

All the best,

Paul

All the best

Two veteran friends showed my girlfriend their medals a while back. Just found this picture on my camera and thought I would share this with you..

Left, Ex Colonel and RSM from the KSLI/Trucial Oman Scouts

Right, Ex Major KSLI/Herefords

Enjoy,

Couple of cracking groups, I know people who would kill for either of them.

Paul

I have the opportunity to pick up a 2nd Empire LoH breast star. It appears to be an original period piece made by a French medallist and in VG condition. I'm wondering what would be a fair price to pay?

Thanks,

Garth

An image and makers details would be helpful as there are many varieties of 2nd Empire breast stars and prices can vary greatly.

All the best,

Paul

having picked up a imperial service medal recently myself i do have to say that they are a very very well made medal and quite attractive! as you said it is quite an under valued medal!!!

They can be very interesting as well. I have a friend in the prison service who is in charge of a small private museum at Wandsworth. He collects ISMs to Prison officers and with his research abilities he has bought some amazing ones, including some to officers who were commended for helping put down prison riots and break-outs and some who had interesting previous military service. Not bad for a small amount of money.

All the best,

Paul

Mervyn,

William Stephenson, LG 26/10/62 (assistant Supervisor, Staines).

All the best,

Paul

I'm sure the item #21923 is from Guatemala.

The sun is a dominant element in the heraldry of Argentina and Uruguay

21923 is Guatemala, I can smell the Quetzal from here. Sun and Liberty cap on pole Argentina, Sun can also be Peru.

All the best,

Paul

Paul

hmmm, this puzzles me, because the Auction I got the picture from was is mid 2005, long before all these these fakes popped up on ebay. the description for the backside on the website is:

"Chinese inscription on reverse (stamped), with thin wire clasp on reverse (mounted the other way round as usual!)" - This also sounds like the fake one.

I also had one of these fakes a wile ago (I gave it to a friend who works in a theater)

On the left is a current fake from ebay (by a seller who calls himself "Fresh Air") and on the right the one from the auction back in 2005, they look nearly identical except the one on the right look like made out of silver:

Alex I have seen this type of surround on a fake Wei Pei Fu Bravery Medal in the form of a star which I saw about a year after this sale, the colours are Eerily identical. I agree they started flooding in the market in 2007 but I suspect that they were producing them some time prior. I know that the dangerous (rather than wouldn't fool an inebriated blindman) coin fakes started surfacing around 2003-2004. I am as sure as a can be that the piece in the Swiss sale is a copy, ideal for theatrical purposes.

All the best,

Paul

Thanks George, that's a good start. Any chance you can direct me to some reference books or other sources, dealing with the criterias and general information about this medal?

cheers

Peter

I have an original consigned for my next auction, given the broadness of the rim compared to an original I would suggest it is at best a novodel (a mint made re-strike late 19th century) or at worst a copy. I have seen several good copies of these medals before. The originals are very rare and should be worth in the region of $5,000.

Diakov is the best work for it, it is mainly for commemorative medals but includes all award medals, the Caucasus medal is included in volume 4. If my memory serves me well I believe Werlich does not even mention it in his work.

All the best.

Paul

My first thought is that this is a "Ladies" size breast star. I have seen quite often where the Ladies' star is smaller than the Men's star. But then again, quite often, a recipient of an Order will have a star made privately - perhaps because they don't want to wear and risk losing the real thing, or because the issued insignia isn't fancy enough for their tastes.

I have never seen a miniature size breast star. The normal size star is worn at all times even with miniatures of other medals - that makes miniature stars unnecessary.

This item could be at least 150 years old - probably more - and that would place it in an era when people wore Orders more often and often had them embroidered onto uniform coats rather than risk damage or loss of the real thing. Hope this helps. Greg.

In my opinion it is a Scots Guards sweetheart brooch, the Star of the Order of the Thistle is their regimental badge. probably First World War but quite nice.

All the best

Paul

Hello Paul

This is not my medal, I found the picture in a database of a well known auction house here in Switzerland. Unfortunately they didn't have a picture of the backside. but the more I look at this medal it seems not 100% real to me, could this probably be a fake? this looks a lot like the common fakes on ebay. I didn't thought on these in the first place because the auction house has a good reputation. of course the back would tell us more here.

Alex,

That's why I asked for an image of the back, I am fairly certain it is a wrong un but the reverse would have confirmed my suspicions, all the best.

Paul

very nice! never saw a miniature of this medal before. where they manufactured in Europe after the owner came back with this from china or came they with the original medal?

thanks for the picture!

a l e x

Alex any chance of a picture of the reverse of your Tiger.

All the best,

Paul

Once you start collecting all these Victorian Medals ... you start to appreciate the quality and care they took in those days of creating master-piece designs.

Unfortunately as collectors (unknown to those designers of yesteryear) we have to pay the price to obtain examples thereof

I suspect Ind's medals may have been a late issue (I have seen similar naming on medals issued in the late 20's and early 30s.)

Paul

With some creative searching, you should also be able to track his career through the London Gazette. For example (note the alternative spelling of "Brice"):

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 2 NOVEMBER, 1914

6th Battalion, The Prince of Wales' s (North Staffordshire Regiment). - Algernon Edward Brice Ind (late Major, 6th Battalion (The Prince of Wales's (North Staffordshire Regiment)), to be Major. Dated 2nd October, 1914

Try searching for "A. E. I. Ind", results include:

THE LONDON GAZETTE, DECEMBER 23, 1902.

2nd Volunteer Battalion, The Prince of Wales's (North Staffordshire. Regiment}, Lieutenant A. E. B. Ind to be Captain. Dated 24th December, 1902,

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 26 JUNE, 1915.

ATTACHED TO HEADQUARTER UNITS. - ROYAL ARTILLERY.

Brigade Majors — Captain C. O. Langley, 6th Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment, Territorial Force, vice Captain A. E. B. Ind, 6th Battalion, The Prince of Wales's (North Staffordshire Regiment), Territorial Force. Dated 17th April, 1915.

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 7 JUNE, 1917.

War Office,

1th June, 1917.

TERRITORIAL FORCE. - INFANTRY.

North Staffs. Reg. — Maj. (temp.) A. E. B. Ind to be Maj., with precedence as from 2nd Oct. 1014, and to remain seconded. 8th June 1917.

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 14 NOVEMBER, 1918

North Staffs. Regt. - Maj. A. E. B. Ind is restored to the estbt., remaining in his present employt. 15th Nov. 1918.

It is not the VC winner the decoration would have been on his BWM and Victory.

Paul

I got the "Albert Ernest Ind" part but missed the VC part!

Interesting however: rank and name, no unit mentioned. Perhaps a renamed or replacement?

Peter

Major A.E.B. Ind served with the 6th Territorial Battalion of The North Staffordshire Regiment 1914-19 (employed permanent base battalion).

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Paul

Hello every1, need help identifying these medals, never seen them before,.http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2010/post-9492-127051769801.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2010/post-9492-127051777568.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2010/post-9492-127051790112.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2010/post-9492-127051798531.jpg

The piece with the toughra on the obverse is an imitation of a gold 500 piastres of Abdul Hamid II and I suggest it was made at a local Turkish jewellers, the other is beyond my ken.

All the best,

Paul

Thanks for the address Paul. Do you know whether they respond to written requests? Living on the Isle of Wight, all trips to mainland are usually planned and pre-determined, so a drop-in visit isn't likely to happen any time soon.

Kevin.

Not sure,

Worth a second class stamp though, nothing ventured nothing gained.

All the best,

Paul

Thanks Paul. Yes, should have clarified, they are indeed Metropolitan Police medals.

As a newbie to your forum I've been busy reading as many old threads as possible before asking and I did see similar queries where members appeared to have the answer to hand, so wondered if someone had compiled a database or whether there is a book I should source.

Can anyone tell me the address or contact details for the Met Police Museum you suggest I contact?

Regards,

Kevin.

Met Collection, Ground Floor, Empress State Building, Empress Approach, Lillie Road, SW6 1TR. Probably won't have the information to hand but should be able to point you in the right direction.

Paul

My thoughts too - a gash repair to the geuine item???

The disc is as wrong as you can get if the Royal mint had produced as cruddy a portrait of George V as that they would have been sent to the Tower and shot.

Paul

Hello everyone

Am I right to believe this badge to be Prussian, Frederick-William III ?. If, so, what Service awarded it, for what exactly and at what period? Were there several classes ?

Every bit of information will be gratefully received.

Regards

Veteran

It's the Army Long Service bar, 1st Class, for N.C.O.s with 21 Years service as issued between 1826-1913, there are several varieties, I suspect yours is the 1895-1913 type but I am sure one of our Imperial buffs will give you chapter and verse ( for type see Hessenthal/Shreiber 1388).

All the best,

Paul

Kevin I assume they are Metropolitan Police medals (sometimes City of London). Might be worth contacting the Metropolitan (or City of London) Police Museum. If they don't have the relevant information they may know where to look, the other options are the censuses 1891 and 1901 which I believe are available on line and you may be able to track him down from there.

All the best,

Paul

I think it is probably a political move, IMHO rather transparent.

Step one) British court issues arrest warrants for Israeli leaders for war crimes in Gaza. This automatically leads to claims of antisemitism. An Israeli leader was discussing this on CNN last week.

Step two) How do you defuse charges of antisemitism and at the same time still stay strong on the issue of Gaza? You state your views on Bulldozers and clusterbombs and the Gaza offensive then protect yourself with "... any I must say! Some of my best friends are Jewish!" at the end.

IMHO this is a political version of the two step. condemn gaza, then honor people who saved Jews in WW2.

Anyway, please no comments on the Gaza issue, this is about the medal, not middle east politics. I have just given a possible reason for its institution....

The IMHO is not only for people who helped Jews in World War 2 but for other persecuted groups as well, by the nature of the beast the vast majority of the awards will be to be people who helped Jewish victims. I feel however that there are alternative ways of recognizing these brave people, who should have been recognised many years previously.

Paul