Sushil Talwar

Sahil,

My dad has both the Stars for 71, he served in the West (opened up the defunct Monabao - Khokrapar railway lines)  and the East (a few covert and overt jobs and finally Dacca).

Does she know his name?

Just recd this page from the author. FYI.

Rgds

Sushil

Errata

Page II line 34; for ?Centre of ?read ?Centre for?

? IX ? 18, for ?A rank is used? read ?A rank as used?

? ? ? 38, for ?as pan of ?read ?as part of ?

? 5 ? 24, for ?South Mahratta Horse? read ?Southern Mahratta Horse?

? 6 ? 7, for ?know as? read ?known as?

? 39 ? 33, for ?Bombay? read ?Poona?

? 52 ? 19, ditto as above

? 80 ? 24, for ?(See C1.15.02)? read ?(See C1.15.03)?

? 85 to image at bottom add the reference number ?C1.15.01?

? 104 line 12, for ?monogram BIC? read ?monogram SIC?

? 147 ? 17, for ?uring? read ?during?

? 151 line 1, under C1.26.13, for ?Officer?s? read ?Officers?

? 156 line 3, under C1.27.02, delete ?.? after ?It?

? 180 ? 27, for ?books^{6 ?} read ?books^5?

? 206 ? 1, for ?Officer?s? read ?Officers?

? 208 ? 4, for ?designation from 1950? read ?designation from 1956?

? 250 ? 4, after ?designation? add ?from 1950?

? 267 ? 6, for ?1957-59? read ?1857-59?

? 271 ? 4, for ?designation from 1950? read ?designation from 1956?

? 302 ? 10, for ?First Sikh War? read ?Second Sikh War?

? 323 f/n no. 6, read on following page 324

? 333-34 ?Mohomed Baksh?, ?Bakhsh? or ?Buksh?, refers to same person

? 334 line 22, insert a full stop after C1.54.11

? 354 line 24, for ?C1.55.20? read ?C1.55.25?

? 363 ? 30, for ?choose from? read ?choose to?

? 393 ? 21, for ?(see above)? read ?(see page 383)?

? 397 ? 15, for ?Shekhawat? read ?Shekhawati?

? 474 ? 11, for ?in returned? read ?it returned?

? 517 ? 18, for ?see page 797? read ?see page 798?

? 519 Erase row for the year 2004; 34 Lcrs raised in 1999, not 2004

? 534 line 2, under C3I.1.08, add ?(reduced scale)? after sabretache

? 576 ? 19, for ?14 (I) Armoured? read ?14th(I) Armoured?

? 585 ? 19-20, after ?Punjab 1965?, remove the italics

? 601 ? 3, for ?by the National Symbol?, read ?by the gauntlet?

? 601 C3I.29.01, correct image to have a gauntlet in place of Ashoka Lions

? 624 line 23, for ?means is Persian? read ?means Persian for?

? 694 bold heading for ?Independent Reconnaissance Squadrons?

? 696 f/n no. 1, for ?go the Pakistan Army? read ?go to the Pakistan Army?

? 720 ? 5, for ?pakistan? read ?Pakistan?

? 722 ? 1, for ?Officers?? read ?Officers?

? 746 f/n no. 1, delete ?an?

? 791 line 3, for ?Cachar and Sylhet read ?Sylhet and Cachar?

? 792 line 20, for ?above five units? read ?above units?

? 793 line 13, for ?above four units? read ?above units?

? 800 line 11, delete full stop after ?Colonel?

? 827 Indian Volunteers, Indian Defence Force and Auxiliary Force India mounted units from Assam Valley Light Horse to Chota Nagpur Regiment (pp. 792-797): add +1 to indexed page numbers of these units

Thanks James. Will have a look at this once I'm back home. Most of these pin-head sized states are more interesting than the BIG ones like Baroda or J&K!

Cheers

Sushil

Thank you Ed. I'm overseas and hence without my notes. I do have one medal of the Jath State - it is for some agricultrue exhibition.

Take care

Sushil

Subedar Lakhmir Singh, RIA.

Jemadar 1936

Subedar 1939

1936 25 Mountain Battery

1939 2-22 Mountain Battery

Cheers

Sushil

Indeed that is the interesting question.

But I guess that identifications having surfaced so far, our resident expert may not actually know themselves.

Perhaps these were medals instituted by the Raja of Jath himself. During the brief 'Indian Summer' between Independence on the 15th of August 1947 and actual merging of the states into India or Pakistan between 1940 and 1950, several rulers went to town instituting orders and decorations. May be he was one of them.

An interesting mystery.

Cheers,

James

James,

These are not medals of Jath State, which was only 980 sq miles in Kolhapur and Deccan States area and there are no records of any medals being struck by Jath. As far as I can remember (remember) Jath was not a Princely State but a Zamindari where the Zamindar held the title of Raja not to be mistaken for Raja which the British recognised as royalty.

Perhaps Ed can add something here.

Cheers

Sushil

Sushil,

I do not follow what you mean by three medals before the Independence Medal. The Independence Medal seems to be the first in the group. The ones I do not know about are the second, third and fourth (i.e. between the Independence Medal and 39/45 Star).

I said Pacific Star because it was the usual award for the Navy for Service in the Indian Ocean, Pacific or South China Sea. The Burma Star was restricted to operational service in Burma waters and Eastern Bay of Bengal. Though I gather that they were also been awarded for service off the Coasts of Sumatra.

Yours etc

James

James,

Exactly what Ed mentions for both the points. The three medals are surely those of some Indian Princely State/s, the question is which one/s?

Rgds

Sushil

and the back! oh and its named! think it reads 2757712 plnk bh im r ao.m.l.i thanks again!

This reads: 2757712 P/Nk BH Rao MLI = Paid Naik BH Rao Mahratta Light Infantry.

Cheers

Sushil

Here is the reverse. This medal is in mint condition and it is like trying to photograph a mirror, the glare was killing me. I finally turned off the spot lights and used the room light only without any flash to get this image so that you can see it. This is why the strange tint to the photo.

Regards

Brian

Brian,

The ribbon is the other way, with the sand stripe on the right.

Rgds

Sushil

I would guess this is to Chowkidar [Watchman] T. Bahadur.

When naming got shifted out to the regiments it got worse. Where there is no regiment (or standards) as with the Military Engineering Service . . .

Usually much clearer when in Hindi.

Doc,

What's the full naming on the medal?

Rgds

Sushil

A very interesting group indeed. Which are the the three medals before the Independence Medal? And, why a Pacific Star? Should be a Burma Star.

Cheers

Sushil

James,

Why don't you send a mail to the Sqn Ldr at the USI and ask for the pictures/scans? I'm sure that will not be a problem for them.

Rgds

Sushil

James,

Believe me the book is just fine in terms of the content, quality of print and the binding. This was one of the things the USI was particulat about.

Rgds

Sushil

Gentlemen,

I assure you it will be a worthy collection to your library.

As ever

Sushil

Dear All, In case of interest. Wishing each of you and your families a healthy, peaceful and happy christmas, and 2009. As ever, Sushil Talwar

Ashok Nath. Izzat - Historical Records and Iconography of Indian Cavalry Regiments 1750-2007. Centre for Armed Forces Historical Research, United Service Institution of India, New Delhi, 2008. 828 + xxi pp. (ISBN 978-81-902097-7-9), ? 85.00 / Rs. 6000.00

Packed with historical data assembled from a wide variety of sources, much of it previously unavailable, together with over 2000 images which have required years of in-depth research to assemble in the form of photographic images or meticulous line drawings, this ground-breaking book deals with every cavalry regiment known to have existed in the armed forces of India and Pakistan from 1750 up to 2007.

The author has concentrated on the complex lineages of the many regiments, the identification of their badges, ethnic compositions and battle honours. A comprehensive mass of information is arranged in an orderly manner for easy access under three sections covering the periods 1750 to 1921, 1921 to 1947 and 1947 to 2007.

Supplementary to this, but vital to an understanding of the subject, there are chapters that explore the evolution of the mounted arm on the Indian subcontinent, policies relating to ethnography and recruitment, the volunteer movement and the Auxiliary Force (India) Cavalry, and the forces of the Indian Princely States that were ultimately absorbed into the Indian Armoured Corps. A detailed bibliography is provided for further research.

This book will serve as an authoritative source for serious students of military history searching for a better understanding of the history and lineage of Indian and Pakistani cavalry regiments and how these entities functioned. It will also provide an indispensable tool for collectors of regimental insignia and military medals and a comprehensive guide to the identification and appreciation of badges, buttons and shoulder titles throughout the period.

?IZZAT is a remarkable achievement. Wonderfully organised and clearly presented, it is an exhaustive account of the cavalry regiments of the Indian Army, both before 1947 and since. The genealogy of each regiment, the fundamental reorganisations of 1921 and 1947, the battle honours and dress distinctions ? all are to be found here. This is an indispensable source of reference.?

Professor Hew Strachan

Chichele Professor of the History of War, Oxford University

?This magnum opus has been written by an acknowledged authority on the subject and will surely become the definitive work on the iconography and history of the cavalry regiments of the old Anglo-Indian Army. Also included is a comprehensive description of all the cavalry regiments of independent India and Pakistan and their fighting records. This well organised book reads easily and is packed with useful information ? including descriptions of many hitherto obscure units. Sources are well noted and provide numerous leads to further research. The illustrations of badges are legion and of excellent quality. Strongly recommended for the serious student of the Sub-continent?s military history.?

The Indian Military Historical Society, United Kingdom

?An outstanding and a pioneering work by Captain Ashok Nath on the Indian Cavalry Regiments from 1750-2007. This publication will go a long way in fulfilling an existing requirement of such a composition, nested in one place, which will be of much use to our regiments and also help researchers and scholars looking for reference material on the subject.?

Lt Gen B.M. Kapur, PVSM, AVSM

President, Indian Cavalry Officers Association

Orders may be send to the following email id. Method of payment will have to be by International Money Order. The cost of the book is GBP ? 85 / USD $ 125. Postage costs are GBP ? 21 / USD $ 31. The book weights a whopping 3 kilos and is lavishly produced, hardbound with gilded edges etc. Please write to: Rana T.S. Chhina

Sqn Ldr (Retd)

Secretary

Centre for Armed Forces Historical Research

United Service Institution of India

Rao Tula Ram Marg

Opposite Signals Enclave

Post Bag No. 8, Vasant Vihar PO

New Delhi ? 110 057

Email: cafhr@usiofindia.org

cafhr@rediffmail.com

Paul,

A saddler in WWII is a rather scarce rank. Its o good medal to have.

Cheers

Sushil

PS: Jason,

I far as I know this humble medal has not been reproduced, there are just too many of them around and the cheapest to buy.

Sushil

Jason,

This is a cast copy and the pitting all round is a dead give away which is a hallamark of things cast.

Cheers

Sushil

The picture of the commandos with their faces covered is that of the Marine Commandos (MARCOS). The fact that they sustained no casualties says something, for that matter the NGS suffered only two killed - for an operation of such diemsions.

Sushil

Give me your address and I'll send you a length.

Rgds

Sushil