greg koepp

cuffs.

greg koepp

Straps, and also inside of Coat it is Stamped with the Unit too.

The other faded coat has the Mans name inside the pocket also.

greg

daggers and clasps, ww1 wound badge too.

hey one of the SA Daggers has a "P" stamped on the cross guard, what is it for?

thanks greg

well just added to my collection some items I ran across, hope you guys like them!

greg koepp

these are interesting and I see that they have done the job! I mean "the job" as something new to the collectors to really think about, we have seen allot of items and some collectors of many,many,many years haven't seen or known about these before so I am glad they are now being looked at closer. I am hoping afew collectors really look into them deeper and something comes to light good or bad?

greg koepp

ya all true.....

but interesting at least, and only found so far? also not for sale but for trade

thanks and hope this thing helps others out, I'm not a cross guy and know nothing to say-who/what/why/where. I would think others are out there, and maybe some of our Russian members can look around in their Country and Museums to find out the real deal if there is one???

thanks and respect your knowable opinion.

Greg koepp

OK, as another Forum is saying is that they think someone took a frame and made one of these to match this Russian Report that Gordon Williamson has provided? now if this is true then why is there only one found in HOW MANY YEARS? 30-60,, also why only make one for the market to find, AND find in a old tool box with pipes? I know what is going to be said and I have been researching for anything on this Cross (I bet you have too, or will) and not one (1) has came to light on the Internet. Fake sure, I could care less, but for this to have a recorded story way back before fakes were being made, and no one talking about these crosses makes me wonder if this story is 100% reasonable.

who,what,why,where????

so what do you guys think? would be a super IC for an IC collector though!

thanks and I am open minded, so I am leaning more with Gordon that these were made at some time.

thanks and hope you like my find.

greg koepp

oh forget this one.

greg koepp

Ok, last photo for now. but you can see where they didn't file it down all the way on one side.

so I will take requests for other shots, but have to charge my laptop and repost on the other forum for Gordon W. and friends.

also I haven't found anyother like this or even a fake out there?? have you guys??

thanks greg koepp

now here's some of the two part frame, you can also see file marks on the next two shots. great shot here too, the next one will show where they didn't file it down all the way.

greg koepp

shot of the loops, I took these in a higher pix so you should beable to look closer on yours

"for Robbery and Murder" some other pitting.

greg koepp

There are acouple of repaint patches, on rust or? you can at the corners the Brass under the coating or whatever it is. you can see where at one time there are paint cover up's 2 out of 3, on the rust or?Close up of date 1941, year they went into Russia. Now the BACK!!

I am not going to add size and so on due to I can't find anyother Iron Cross like this, so it will hamper fakers??

greg

OK let's open this post up with photos.....

First off I don't care if this Russian Propaganda Iron Cross is real or fake.

After putting this Cross under a Microscope it looks like there is a brass core in the middle, if you can see or blow up the photos on your computer at the edges of wear you can see brass under the base medal??? or whatever it is? You can see the bubbling under the paint in some areas, also rust pitting.

I will say some remarks on some photos so you can see what I see?

Thanks Greg Koepp

Also Gordon said in a note to me that:

I think they were first publicised by some Soviet museum curator ( this was way back in Soviet times before East European countries started flooding the market with fakes and churning out "Nazi" stuff would have been, to say the least, frowned upon).

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that genuine examples of these exist.

So I must say that if these are fake OR faked who has one or photos???

thanks greg koepp__________________

I'll try this again................

OK, I went to a Estate Sale and found a old wooden tool box in the Garage and once I pulled it down, I opened and found a bunch of old smoking pipes and a tobacco bag with 3 Iron Crosses and one being a 1870 in outstanding condition! 2 others were Iron Crosses 2nd class?? (I THOUGHT) once I stuffed them back under the pipes and I paid for the box $15.00 I went home to glow on my new buy!

Then when I was done looking at the 1870 I was looking the 2nd classes, when I was re-looking at one of them I didn't know what the heck it was, it had writing on the back with a 1813 date: "Fur" at the top of the rear and "Raub und Mord" in the middle?? The front was weird but couldn't figure what looked wrong til I searched on the Internet and then noticed it was dated 1941???

So I found that Gordon Williamson has in one of his books information on these but I don't have the book So I e-mailed him yesterday to ask what he knows about them and he sent me information and a photo of two in an article, and he said they are real? I have found no other photos of one besides the article he sent and those shots are not so good.

Now this cross I have is made with a split frame brass core I think? and 3 pieses all together, not counting the silver ring. I haven't weighted it, or done measuments yet but will. I know what your going to ask and please post photos but I'm going wait til I get better information, because I can already read the responces. (no good and so on)??

If anyone has information or? please post so I can learn more on this item.

I have read that about 500 of these propaganda crosses were made? but have no idea where that Number came from???? On the reverse is the year "1813" and the inscription "Fur Raub und Mord" ("For Robbery and Murder").

any help would be great,

here is a photo of what Gordon sent me so far, PLEASE TRANSLATE TO ENGLISH..... but after closer examination of mine has a base medal center of some type, not brass as I thought. I had to wash it due to the tobacco stuck to it, and there is bubbling under some corners and slight rust in some too.

also once I get more information on this I will post photos, also on the 1870,, I moved it later in the day to a local friend who collects IC's and owns a few hundred of all types, BUT if you want I will go back over and get photos of it if you want me too? (not today) but nothing wrong with it.

I have also read that these were made in 3 pieces, so?

thanks and more to come.

greg koepp

Thanks greg koepp

WOW, now that is rare to find one complete! what a outstanding find, I have always wanted one and have not seen one for sale? Please tell the story on how you found this, I would love to find one.

wow, great find!!

thanks greg

nice arm shot, Hey Gordon would they sew on the Kuban Shield to a tropical coat? I have never seen a photo of one like it, so don't think so, BUT??

Don't worry I would never sew one on my coat even if they did, but would like to get one so I can set it next to my coat.

thanks greg

heres his Coat I missed, it came with pant and cap, etc..

greg

strap,

Thanks!

I am very proud of it! This is not my collecting area but have always wanted something unique from a U-Boat, and a named known U-48 tropical uniform top fits in just right for now. At least til I move on, and it has to go!!!

thanks greg

Robin whats the green for? reserve?

hey I bet you want that stick pin I posted HUH! it's in storage, and once i get my stuff out, once I move I'll let you know if your interested.

greg

heres the WW1 tankers stick pin that came with the grouping.

greg koepp

here is a Von Epp diamond with gold trim, the gold trim from what I remember is because he was a active member of the Freikorp.

greg