Richard Gordon

Jacques/Marcus, thanks for the comments.

Regarding the different styles of central medallion, if I recall correctly, wasn't this down to the different makers? Ega?a being the most known ( I have no idea who the other makers are ) and recognised by the enamelled berries?

Rich

Shot of the back

Rich

Rivet set-up

Rich

Here's one offered to me. I feel it is a fine, period example but I'm not a scholar on these awards so best to have you chaps give your opinions.

Rich

Isn't it great when that happens?!

Reminds me of the circumstances with this trio... it was on Ebay and the pictures were dark but I noticed it straight away and got it for a song

Rich

Nice one, Rich...

T-shirts to follow.

Nice t-shirt! Where can I get one?

more..

I echo your concerns on the Bomber clasp too. There definitely looks to be a repair to the wreath which you can see from the front and back. Therefore the finish to the front has also been re-applied.

The others look fine to me!

Rich

I've recently acquired a Deumer too.

Rich

John

Good point about IMME, also look at GWL... not exactly blued! These are traits from those makers BUT what we cannot argue or dispute is that Juncker did blue the eagles as per the design specification so I can only deduct that when these Junckers flight badges are found with no bluing, it is a result of wear or cleaning.

Anyway, we're slipping away from the original thread... BTW I agree with you on the badge being the 1st pattern and the additional points you mentioned to look for in distinguishing between '1st' and '2nd' designs. I just usually found the head to be the easiest point to focus on but your observations are also useful.

I just wish we could work out if CEJ pre-dated the C.E, Juncker mark or whether they both were in use for a time together until the CEJ mark was eventually dropped.

Rich

Personally, I don't believe in the 'all silver' theory.

Firstly, why would it be made that way when design of the badge incorporates a darkened the eagle? I just doubt Juncker would ignore the design finishing specifications. Besides it just looks so much better with the contrast of the blued eagle (my opinion, of course!).

Secondly, you can see from the reverse of badge in question that there is blueing on the wing-tips. Excessive cleaning will easily remove the blueing, especialy products such as silver dip which will remove the blued finish very quickly and leave no trace of scrubbing, etc.

But just because I'm not a believer does not make my views right. John, I'd love to see these period photos of pilots in evening dress. Can you post them?

Rich

Here's the '2nd' pattern.

Both are slim but the neusilber one is really slim!

Very nice badge you have there!

Rich

I would agree it's too heavy for aluminum. I would have though it could be neusilber as there seems to be no base metal showing through on worn spots (other than the hinge and catch).

Having said that it looks like the '2nd' model but a clearer shot of the head, especially the eagle's eye would clear that up as it seems to be the only visual difference between the two.

FYI, the '1st' model example I have (neusilber) weighs 22.0g and the tombac one I have is 25.0g so perhaps tombac is correct.

Rich

Looking at the size of that catch, I'd say a city in Latvia.

Very nice shape!

Just an FYI, Carsten Baldes listed a nice 800 silver version, no maker for the bargain price of 200- Euro yesterday.

Yep, a real beauty!

Rich

Jan

Stop! You're killing me!!!

Rich

Love those slim frames!

Brian

I've been thinking about your dilemma since you started this thread.

When we see engraved pieces, there really is no telling if the engraving was made just after the piece was awarded (but still in war-time) or whether the recipient had it engraved after that war ended. Absolutely no way of telling if it was the 30's, 40's, 50's etc. Just look at that thread on the engraved 1914 EK1. If the font looks period, it seems it is acceptable even if the aging is not present.

You are the direct descendant and custodian of these awards and therefore I do not see a problem with you having these pieces engraved. I would not, however, have them laser engraved or engraved in any other modern way. I would have it done, by hand, by a skilled engraver in the correct font that matches the period of the award. I would also keep the engraving as small and as discreet as possible.

Good luck with your final decision for it surely is a tough decision to make.

Rich

I would concurr with John. I've only seen one style of MM on Deumers, even the late zinc RO/AG shown the same MM as the early pieces.

Rich

I've been hunting for a nice M35 DD with the bordered decal have you got one?

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'Fraid not, Don. Only borderless. I understand the bordered M35's are quite hard to find.

Rich

Not as far as I can tell. Just tarnish built up over the years.

Compare to the EK and you can see what I was referring to. Maybe the EK has been cleaned often?

Here's the goblet I was referring to.

Rich

Chet

I have a silver goblet that was a sailing prize in the 1940's. If I remember later, I'll take a picture of the engraving to see how the patina looks.

Rich

when looking at the '800' mark and how dark the recesses are, I don't think the engraving is period as there does not appear to be the same patina.

Just my opinion.

A very nice EK1 though.

Rich