Kapitular

OK, here are The photos. At first the "Anna-Luise-Verdienstzeichen". Please remember, it`s a modern fake!!

Now the silver "Anerkennungsmedaille".

Thank you Kapitular !

I'm very interrested by photo's of the "Anna-Luise Ehrenzeichen" and of "Anerkennungsmedaille" (the silver and the bronze !).

Because nobody seems have theses items, I think it will interrest a lot of persons here !

Greetings !

Jean-Baptiste

(PS : Can you scan the two sides of each medals ? Thank you again !)

OK, here are The photos. At first the "Anna-Luise-Verdienstzeichen". Please remember, it`s a modern fake!!

Hello !

I have a new question :

The Nimmergut OEK is talking about :

2765 Goldene Verdienstmedaille mit Spange 1917

2766 Silberne Verdienstmedaille mit Spange 1917

2767 Silberne Annerkenungsmedaille mit Spange 1917

2768 Bronzene Annerkennungsmedaille mit Spange 1917

I have never seen these orders ! I have search them on the net, but never found an illustration !

Can someone post a photo of these medals ???

Thank you !

In my former collection of Imperial awards, I had only one silver and one bronce "Anerkennungsmedaille", both without the "Spange 1917". If you are interested, I can send a photo of these decorations.

Regards

Kapitular

Thank you for informations !

I'll try to found these books.

I have a new question and challenge about Schwarzburg :

the "Anna-Luise Verdienstzeichen" (OEK 2834) : created on 1918, february 19th. Only 215 medals awarded (!)...

I've seen a (bad) photo on thies catalog, but I can't read the exergue's text on obverse... (VERDIENST ... .......... ?) Can someone tell me ?

And I have never seen the backside of this medal. Does someone possess this rare medal ?? Can you post a photo of the backside ? or describe it ?

Thank you !

Jean-Baptiste

The backside of this medal is blank. I have never seen an original piece, have only a fake in my collection. If you are interested, I can add a photo of this fake of course.

Regards Kapitular

Here another axample of an outfitter?s ignorance.

The owner was Ernst August Anton Wilhelm Timpe, jailinspector of the jail in Jever/Oldenburg.

Regards

Kapitular

I think, it?s very clear. The attachment as KW Lt. to the Oldenburg FAR 62, that means, connections to Oldenburg for nearly 16 years, that?s the reason, he got the Oldenburg House Order.

By the way, born in Osnabr?ck, he was a native of Prussia. The kingdom Hannover ended already in 1866.

Best regards

Kapitular

No Hannoverian awards for WW1.

He was NOT an Oldenburg native, which makes his House Order quite surprising indeed. Why HIM, and him alone out of tens of thousands of OTHER HQ staff types?

In 1917, June 18th it was declared:

To get the Oldenburg House Order with swords presumes the posession of the EK I. and a Prussian House Order with swords (normally the Hohenzollern) or the decoration with the Pour le m?rite.

I don?t know any other person, decorated with an Oldenburg House Order with swords, but not with a FA Cross 1. and 2. class. Until June 1917 for military merit there were only FA Crosses awarded.

Regards

Kapitular

Wups--typo! Thanks for fixing that!

Do you know if any other non-natives got the Order during the war WITHOUT Friedrich August Crosses? I take it as a given that any native Oldenburger already had both classes by the time he received a Prussian Hohenzollern 3X-- the requirement for getting the Oldenburg House Order with X?

Heinrich H?ne got the Oldenburg House Order Knight cross with crown and swords in 1918, January 30th.

Regards

Kapitular

Here another interesting bar with an Imperial Russian medal, the little silvermedal "F?r Diensteifer".

The bar is from a member of the oldenburg court, "Kammerdiener Thie".

Best regards

Kapitular

Since we are talking about a Russian medal for Zeal, here it is on a Saxon bar.

Kammerdiener_Thie_website.htm

Thank you Jacky,

Aside from the Brunswick connection, I really like the "foreign" decorations on this group - not the usual. Unfortunately, I've never gotten an identification on it. I rather suspect that it belonged to a minor member of the Brunswick court or even household staff.

Here is a better look at the entire group; front and back.

Thank you again and best wishes,

Wild Card

I am quite sure, the bar belongs to a member of the brunswick court staff whith the charge of a "Lakai". I suppose, you can identify him, searching in the "Hof- und Staatshandbuch".

Good luck!

Kapitular

Looking up the old thread, I can add the date of award for the Oldenburg "Offizierkreuz":

1912. May 24th.

Regards

Kapitular

Full pic

I am sorry, but my english is not so good, to give you all the informations you are looking for, but in the internet you will find a lot of them. For example here:

http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art....ue&id=53276

Best regards

Kapitular

Hi,

I take it from the discussion here that these "Kammerherrenschl?ssel" were worn as a symbol of office. What exactly was the office and the duties reqiuired of the bearer?

Reguards,

Sam

Thanks, I know them both, but they are from Friedrich August, so the chiffre is "FA". I hope, to see one with the chiffre "A" from Paul Friedrich August or with the chiffre "NFP" from Nikolaus Friedrich Peter. Your website I found too, very informing and interesting! By the way, I suppose, that the Oldenburg keys wer worn without a ribbon, but I am not sure.

For all who are intersted, a picture from the back:

Regards Kapitular

On Huesken?s website you will find a Chamberlain Key, Oldenburg 1900 - 1918: http://www.german-militaria.de/details/d35609.html

The same key you find at Thies Auction 30, No. 408.

Red

PS: On my website you find a key from Nassau.

Thanks for the bookinformation. Maybe I`ll find an answer there, although my questions are very special.

Rick, there is a hook. It was worn on the right hip, in some states additional with a scarf in the colours of the state.

Do you take a look in:

Biblio - Verlagsverzeichnis 1998

Duwe, Georg. Erzk?mmerer, Kammerherren und ihre Schl?ssel.

Erzk?mmerer, Kammerherren und ihre Schl?ssel. Historische Entwicklung eines der ?ltesten Hof?mter vom Mittelalter bis 1918 mit Dokumentation und Rangabzeichen. XII, 480 Seiten mit 209 Abb. 17x24 cm. Osnabr?ck 1990. Lwd.

ISBN 3-7648-1742-9 DM 180,-

Schl?ssel als Symbole f?r Recht und Macht im weltlichen wie im kirchlichen Bereich hatten schon immer eine gro?e Bedeutung: sei es das b?rgerliche Schl?sselrecht in der Ehe, die ,,potestas clavium" des Papstes oder der Schl?ssel als Orden- und Ehrenzeichen mit entsprechenden Befugnissen und gesellschaftlicher Stellung an den Hofstaaten von den Karolingern bis zum Ersten Weltkrieg. Der Autor des vorliegenden Buches dokumentiert diese Zusammenh?nge an den Beispielen der Erzk?mmerer und Kammerherren, den wohl ?ltesten Hof?mtern Europas, die es zu allen Zeiten und in allen Staaten des Heiligen R?mischen Reiches Deutscher Nation (aber nat?rlich auch im Ausland) gab.

Auf 209 Abbildungen werden die kunstvoll gearbeiteten Machtsymbole gezeigt und im Text Ursprung, Bedeutung sowie Entwicklung bis in die Gegenwart hinein erl?utert.

For me this piece is not ok! Regard the "half" cross above the crown or on the rear side the unsharp "E" and "R" of "VERDIENST". 20 years ago a had a same piece in my collection and it was definitely a fake.

Best regards

Kapitular

This "Kammerherrenschl?ssel" was awarded in Oldenburg before 1829 under the duke Peter Friedrich Luwig. It shows his code "P". After his death followed Paul Friedrich August, later Nicolaus Friedrich Peter and finally the last one, Friedrich August. From this last one I know a "Kammerherrenschl?ssel" with his chiffre "FA".

My questions:

Had the granddukes Paul Friedrich August and Nikolaus Friedrich Peter "Kammerherrenschl?ssel" with their own chiffres, for example "PFA" or "NFP" ? Did anyone of you ever see a key with these chiffres ?

Maybe, you can help me.

Best regards

Kapitular

This "Kammerherrenschl?ssel" was awarded in Oldenburg before 1829 under the duke Peter Friedrich Luwig. It shows his code "P". After his death followed Paul Friedrich August, later Nicolaus Friedrich Peter and finally the last one, Friedrich August. From this last one I know a "Kammerherrenschl?ssel" with his chiffre "FA".

My questions:

Had the granddukes Paul Friedrich August and Nikolaus Friedrich Peter "Kammerherrenschl?ssel" with their own chiffres, for example "PFA" or "NFP" ? Did anyone of you ever see a key with these chiffres ?

Maybe, you can help me.

Best regards

Kapitular

Deeply impressed!!

v. Bassewitz got the Oldenburg knight cross 2nd class with crown in 1895, June 21st.

Kapitular

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks Rick,

Sam

This bar is absolutely correct. The owner was W.J.A. von Wedderkop who got the houseorder PFL in 1870 September 6th. After the war he left the state of Oldenburg, to become a civil servant in the prussian railway administration. Unfortunately I was not successful, to get this bar, but I am very happy, to have a good photo for my archive.

Best regards

Kapitular

I am quite sure, this medal is not officially issued. It is a private purchase medal after 1918.

Kapitular

Could it be a private purchase medallion?

This medal is the first form, awarded from 1833 to ca. 1864 with the little star and "KOENIG". The next form was with three different "flowers" instead of the star and "K?NIG". About 1900 pieces were stamped (coined)? (I don`t know the correct word, sorry) but not all of them were awarded. The medal was made of silver.

This medal here is quite different from the original medal.

Kapitular

I still need the M1926. How difficult/expensive is this "final link"?

Hello and thank you to all of you. I think, this will be a last comment to my bar. Indeed, it is my bar. Komtur was so kind, to present it here in the forum at a time, I was not a member of the club.

We have to notice, that Konsul Wanner definitively was not the person we are looking for. I think, the key will be found in the list of the belgian Order of the Crown between 1908 and 1914. In this time will be some german persons, who got it and one of them will be the owner of the bar. When we have for example about 20 names it will not be too difficult, to find him. So I am still in good hope!!

Kapitular

Hello,

I have checked the Crownorders awarded up towards 1908 (E.I.C. = Congo freestate periode) and there is no Wanner mentioned. And note that the date 1908 is very important. The crownorder as shown did become a belgian order from that year on. Before it was a Order of the Congo Freestate (and not Belgian as such !!!)

What does this mean;

1) iff the medalbar is indeed from the named person he did get his Crownorder between 1908 and 1914.

2) the medalbar is not from Wanner and then we have once again multiple German subjects who did get a E.I.C. Crownorder.

Cordial greetings,

Alexander Stoll got this medal for his help at the great explosion in the ammunitiondepot in Marienhafe, a small village near Wilhelmshaven where he was stationed at that time. Three other persons got the same medal for the same event in 1920, September 9th.

The Medal was awarded from 1927 to 1934, only 87 pieces. The first ward tokk place in 1927, March 17th and the last in 1934, April 4th.

I suppose, it was delivered in a small box, but i am not sure. But there was a nice document, I have here in my archive, but it has too many bites, to present it here.

Kapitular

Great find and research!

This decoration was established in 1860 and only awarded for seven years, up to 1867, the year of the military union with Prussia. 25 bars were produced but only 21 awarded.

Kapitular

Here the silver cross for 25 years, produced 30 pieces, awarded all the 30.

If there is still any interest, I can add some rare pieces of my former collection, for example this LS bar from Bremen, only 21 awards.

Kapitular