ERIC

I can't add much to what you have already said John. The eagle and wreath are distinctly different from that of the Juncker 1st pattern, that is for sure. I agree as well that the reverse has a "Deumer" look about it. The catch 'hook' and the grinding under the hinge, as well as the pin flattening and rivits all have that Deumer persona. Superb badge John.

ERIC

Hey John,

Great Flak! On all of this style Flak Badge, I've never come across a maker mark of any kind whatsoever - with the exception of this example that I acquired awhile back. A lieferant #5 is found smack dab in the middle of the 88's reverse. I've never seen another one like it. The only difference that I see between it and your example is this marking, and a difference in the catch style - mine has a round stock catch. Is there any possible way to connect the "5" to Scholze??

ERIC

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Excellent acquisition JTW!! I like all the 1st patterns, but the type with the cutout does indeed inhance the eagles appearence better!

ERIC

"Unknown Maker" Aluminum Eagle, Bunt Wreath:

[attachmentid=9847]

2nd Pattern Juncker:

[attachmentid=9846]

2nd Pattern Juncker:

[attachmentid=9845]

1st Pattern Juncker:

[attachmentid=9844]

And the reverse -

[attachmentid=9771]

I'll be glad to Jan! OK Kurt, here is Jan Arnes' badge as requested.

ERIC

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Hi Kurt,

IMO, that's a B&NL Flak (in zinc!) all the way. VERY RARE badge indeed. Your new badge matches up very well to my example, except mine has a different hinge and is marked. The hinge on your example is the typical type seen on all B&NLs, as is the recessed catch as John has already stated. My example weighs in at 32.7 grams, so a gram off is really of no concern. The eagle is correct also, in style and method of adherence to the badge - two small rivits on either side of the hinge. The leafing looks spot on as well. I like it alot. Is this the badge you sent me fuzzy pics of eons ago and I told you it looked like a B&NL?? I think I remember you said you were going to take a chance on it because of the rarity of these per our discussion. If so, looks like your 'risk' paid off my friend! I too would like to hear Jan Arnes' thoughts as well - his too is an unmarked example if my memory serves me correctly. I know Frank H. has one of these as well - if he sees this maybe he can chime in as well. Here's your example Kurt with mine so you can see for yourself the similarities.

Best,

ERIC

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Hello Gordon,

Very nice badge! Question - what do the characatures on the reverse represent, a maker marking or some clue as to who the recipient was??

ERIC

Hi JTW,

Very sound and sensible thoughts John - makes perfect sense IMO. When I first saw the badge I thought it was an example with an aluminum wreath, noticing the "A", D.R.G.M. right off. When I inquired with the seller as to the badges weight (to verify if indeed an aluminum example), he stated "around 25 grams". I knew right then and there it definately wasn't aluminum - way too heavy. I then assumed it was a zinker(seller "wasn't sure"), and upon opening the package I found that it was a correct assumption. A neat little Assmann variation!

ERIC

The Reverse:

[attachmentid=9179]

Hi Guys,

Here's an interesting Assmann FE/AG I recently acquired and thought that I would share. An all zinc example, yet its wreath was obviously struck from the old aluminum wreath die, hence the "A", D.R.G.M. on the reverse. The badge weighs in at 24.1 grams, and its overall finish, eagle included, has held up remarkably well for a zinker. Just a cool badge, something a little different!

ERIC

[attachmentid=9178]

And the reverse.

The makers mark "128" can easily be seen.

Joey

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Gee, I seem to remember that one Joey! - Looks familiar.......

ERIC

Thanks John, I appreciate your reply and info as always!

ERIC

Thanks very much JTW!! You learn something everyday! Would I be correct to assume that the bottom symbol on the catalog cover page is the maker mark of choice for their blades, or was this one, as well as the 'DOG' mark, both used together at the same time or at different time frames? Thanks again for any help you can lend here John.

ERIC

I can only echo Gerds' response Michel - FANTASTIC grouping!! Refreshing to see one so intact and unplayed with, with such a rare medal to boot! Congrats!!

ERIC

Hi Guys,

Just a quick question here. I have an acquaintance that tells me that the Third Reich firm of Paul Seilheimer made 2nd Pattern Luftys......is this correct?? I have NEVER myself seen or heard of a blade marked by this particular maker before. Can someone confirm this and or show me a maker mark tied to this firm?? Thanks for any help you can lend!

ERIC

Hi Eric, I would have to agree with you on the Deumers vs. Juncker in "weight" and appearance, but I still find just a subtle bit more finishing on the Juncker badges. Call me biased, I can live with it 

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Hi Rick,

OK Rick you're biased!! No, really, I know you are partial to the Juncker-made badges, that's okay. I agree with you regarding the hand finishing - those Juncker craftsmen wielded some serious files! Both companies were at the top of their game in badge making no doubt, so no wonder we see so many hybrid badges between the two. I'll still take a Deumer Pilot over a buntmetall Juncker 1st or 2nd Pattern Pilot anytime!

Best,

ERIC

Great looking tropical ensemble Gene! Made even better by its affiliation with the HGD!!

ERIC

Thank you everyone, I appreciate it! The quality of workmanship on these Deumers' far surpasses those made by Juncker IMO. She weighs in at a hefty 44.1 grams! @Bill - I'm up to 15 Pilot Badges now, but there is always room for more! @John - an OM is next on the 'hit list' Pilot Badge wise J, but I do have an Assmann 1st Pattern Aluminum Pilot ( a bit worn, but so what!! ) in the works as we speak. Again, thanks to everyone for the kind replys!

Best,

ERIC

Reverse -

[attachmentid=8439]

Hi Guys,

Well, I FINALLY got one. Seems like I waited for one of these forever!! I never realized just how hard these are to come by, until I searched for 4 years! Complete with a DEUMER eagle, not a Juncker hybrid. Happy days, happy days!

ERIC

[attachmentid=8437]

Good job Jan! I know you've been waiting for one of these for quite some time. Kudos my friend!!

ERIC