Panzerpionier

... where those missing medals are now.

No doubt three rare and authentic Legion Condor medal bars are now being sold somewhere...

http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...=ADME:B:SS:ES:1

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

This medal was indeed widely produced and awarded to Spanish veterans and Legion condor members.

Ega?a is the spanish most known manufacturer, and its decoration are always of good quality. I just find one like your in medals bar, with the same MM and AM letters.

I think that Panzerpionner or Valero will be more helpfull to say if this is a period mark or post-war.

jacques

There are some variants made by Industrias Ega?a with different marks, but I don't know which ones were made period or post-war. Perhaps some fellow collectors could post some medal bars with bomb-proof provenances in order to establish a fail-safe rule.

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

This medal was indeed widely produced and awarded to Spanish veterans and Legion condor members.

Ega?a is the spanish most known manufacturer, and its decoration are always of good quality. I just find one like your in medals bar, with the same MM and AM letters.

I think that Panzerpionner or Valero will be more helpfull to say if this is a period mark or post-war.

jacques

There are some variants made by Industrias Ega?a with different marks, but I don't know which ones were made period or post-war. Perhaps some fellow collectors could post some medal bars with bomb-proof provenances on order to establish a fail-safe rule.

Sorry, I had a mistake. G?ring was awarded the Grand Collar, not the Grand Cross.

Some info about the order, including regulations (in Spanish):

http://members.fortunecity.es/medallasfalange/pyugo.htm

Hello Gentlemen,

Im looking for a picture of this decoration.

Thx a lot in advance

Regards

Alexandre

There are several pictures of Hermann G?ring wearing it floating around, but I can not find one good enough.

Some of the lesser grades (click on images for explanations):

http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/medall.../yugoflecha.htm

The flag reads (words between parentheses added by me for a better understanding):

6? BATALLON (de la) U.G.T.

PABLO IGLESIAS

COMPA?IA (de) AMETRALLADORAS

Which mean:

6th BATTALION (of the) U.G.T.

PABLO IGLESIAS

MACHINE GUN COMPANY

The U.G.T. (Union General de Trabajadores, General Workers Union) was the syndicate branch of the socialist party P.S.O.E. (Partido Socialista Obrero Espa?ol, spanish socialist workers party). Both organisations still exist today. What is more, current Spanish governemt is held by P.S.O.E. Thanks to them now we are even more democratic than the countries that invented democracy!

Pablo Iglesias was the founder of the P.S.O.E., whose name was taken for the 6th battalion of the U.G.T.

Obviously it is a captured republican flag.

The machine gun depicted is a pre-SCW Spanish made Hotchkiss, slightly different from the original, French made model (note brass stock instead of handle).

Note German Drohne guy at the right.

Here is all I could read, it is very faint in person as well. This cap I believe is from the 40's or 50's which is still Franco era, but definitely post 1939.

1st Box of info:

Some sort of Crown, followed by"E.C.I.VESTUART?

Unden 1??? (a date, but barely legible, looks like 1939 or 1930)

Taller 11 M 5 E ?

TALLA 1"

The 2nd box I can't make out anything except for "22 1 55" which could be a date, but just a guess. There is also a stamp of a "J" with a box around it. Now hopefully someone with good detective skills can decipher this cryptic writing.

I hope that helps a bit and thanks for the input,

Cheers,

Pat

I am sure first line reads E.C.I. Vestuario (E.C.I. CLOTHING or E.C.I. WARDROBE).

Perhaps second line reads ORDEN 1??? (ORDER 1???). Perhaps the introduction order/regulation year or the manufacturing order number.

"Taller" means Workshop and "Talla" means Size.

Here are the markings on this wool Spanish field cap for further study, the consensus so far is it is probably either Spanish Civil war era or immediately following it, so any confirmation or other examples are great.

Pat

Markings are barely readable. Could you post the text?

Here are the markings on this wool Spanish field cap for further study, the consensus so far is it is probably either Spanish Civil war era or immediately following it, so any confirmation or other examples are great.

Pat

I am far from an expert, but I would say it is post-1939.

I'm confused myself. The Crown would indicate Royalty while the Eagle a Republic.

Doc

The Saint John's eagle is not related to a Republic whatsoever... It was adopted by the Catholic Kings of Spain in the XVth century and re-adopted by General Franco for the Nationalist Spain crest in 1938.

When the Spanish team won a championship in Australia some years ago (perhaps a tennis championship, I can not recall correctly right now), the 1931-1936 Republican anthem was played... surprising both Spanish authorities and staff. Do you think Australian government is left-winged and pro-Republican Spain?

What is more, when the Spanish soldiers of the Blue Division sworn loyalty to the swastika-fitted German flag to fight Russian communism, the German military band played the 1931-1936 Republican anthem. I don't know the political agenda of the Australian government, but I am sure the Nazi Germany government was not left-winged and pro-Republican Spain.

Those are unnintentional mistakes. It is very difficult to keep updated the information about political changes in other countries. Don't complicate matters for subtleties. Or, as we say in our country, "no busqueis los 5 pies al gato"

Medalla de sufrimientos por la Patria document. This medal was awarded to the wounded, but also the soldiers who died in Spain.

According to Spanish regulations, the Medalla de sufrimientos por la Patria was awarded to wounded soldiers and next of kin of dead soldiers, including a economical compensation in both cases, but not to dead soldiers.

In my opinion, the medal was awarded by the Nationalist government to the next of kin of the fallen German soldiers, but being unable to know the name of the next of kin, the document was filled with the name of the soldier. Of course, Nationalist government could have contacted its German counterpart to obtain the name of the required person, but that should have delayed the awarding process. This is just a theory, but it explains the contradiction between regulations and actual documents.

Hello Panzerpionier,

Thx a lot , information very important to me.

Do you have the date of institution and rules of this decoration ?

Regards,

Alexandre

http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/medallas/texto/gcgsp.htm

The breast star is much like this http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/medallas/texto/cgj.htm but with golden sunburst.

Best regards

Hello Panzerpionier,

Thx for the answer. Very apreciated.

Do you have a picture of Cruz de Guerra de Espana con Estrella ??

One recipent of this condecoration is FieldMarshall Georg von K?chler.

Regards

Alexandre

There is no decoration with that name. I understand that you are referring to the "Gran Cruz de Guerra" (Great War Cross) that was awarded to generals.

Hello Panzerpionier,

Thx for the answer. Very apreciated.

Do you have a picture of Cruz de Guerra de Espana con Estrella ??

One recipent of this condecoration is FieldMarshall Georg von K?chler.

Regards

Alexandre

There is no decoration with that name. I understand that you are referring to the "Gran Cruz de Guerra" (Great War Cross) that was awarded to generals.

Sal,

I'm trying to track down the WNr's of the seaplanes that were sent to Spain (He 59, 60 and 115). My research is for something specific and not models.

Any help you could offer would be great.

regards

Adam

This is what I have (not much!):

He 115 A-0 D-ANTP

He 115 A-0 D-AOHC

Source:

SALGADO, JUAN CARLOS: HEINKEL HE 115 (I)

Quir?n Ediciones. Valladolid, 2002.

ISBN 84-87314-91-0

On the other hand, you may know that two additional German seaplanes served in the Spanish Civil War:

Junkers Ju 52 W (manned always by German personnel)

Arado Ar 95 (Germans handled them to Spanish units)

During the WWII Spanish Air Force received also Dornier Do 24 and Heinkel He 114 seaplanes.

There is little info about WrNr's of German aircraft sent to Spain.

Best regards

Hello gentlemen,

I received a picture from a friend.

The name of file is Cruz de Guerra de Espa?a con Estrella.

I like to know if this is the right condecoration. If yes, please share to me the date of institution and rules.

if no, i like to see the real condecoration.

Thx a lot in advance.

Alexandre

The name of the decoration is "Cruz de Guerra con palmas para cabos y soldados" (War Cross with palms for corporals and privates). There was a similar cross without palms that was a lesser award. It was introduced in 1942 and therefore it was not awarded for Spanish Civil War service (1936-1939).

Best regards

As Jacques wrote before, that medal is a enlisted men Maria Cristina Cross. It was awarded between 1925 and 1931. After that year it was discontinued, and the recipients had to change the red-white-red-yellow-red-white-red monarchist ribbon for a red-white-red-yellow-purple-white-red republican one; the crown was changed for a republican one, and the three fleur-de-lys in the center disc were removed. Other fleur-de-lys on the cross arms were replaced by castles and lions.

The sample above could have been modified as per 1931 regulations, or probably it was made after 1931 as a replacement with all the mentioned changes included.

Needless to say that it was not awarded to LC personnel.

On the other hand, the SCW era "Cruz de Guerra" (War Cross) is a simplified version of the Maria Cristina Cross breast stars for officers.

So this was a "tradition" insignia and NOT a campaign award like the "Kreta" or "Afrika" cuff titles? The bridegroom has NO Spanish Civil War awards-- he wan't even THERE!!!

The "Legion Condor" Luftwaffe cufftitle was a tradition badge too, worn by personnel of the Kampgfeschwader 53, Flakregiment 9 and Luftnachrichten-Regiment 3.

Sal;

I do not believe there is any tie in with Spain. I thought there was due to the word toledo, but probably not.

Vic

I agree.

I thought that the crest on eagle was that of Nationalist Spain, but definitely it is not. Toledo is a city in Spain with connection to the Spanish Civil War, but perhaps is also a Romanian word.

The dagger was made by a renowned German company, and therefore it has a lot of interest indeed.

Here is a copy of the Eagle seal

Definitely not Spanish

verticle shot

Could you post a close-up pic of the "crest on eagle"?

another

I have never seen something like that.

Perhaps it was made to celebrate the liberation of the "Alcazar" of Toledo. The presence of propeller blades, wings may suggest connection to Legion Condor, but in that case I would expect some Luftwaffe emblems or swastikas.

The crest is that of Nationalist Spain, but the "crowned FF" monogram is unknown to me.

Many Thanks to all!!! I'll ask for advice as the time comes. I'm not a closed - minded person. I love to learn and love military history. Juan, there will be no more "shots" at the"fraternity". I was frustrated and I do apologise!!!

Again, Thank you All,

Doc

IMHO the book that best fits your interest on LC uniforms and headgear is Bender's book. See post #3 for a picture of the cover.

Uniforms, Organization and History Legion Condor, Roger James Bender, R. James Bender Publishing, San Jose, CA 95153, 1992 ISBN No. 0-912138-50-5.

It is out of print, but several copies can be found at reasonable prices.

Please note that the text has several errors (I have not found a LC book with a text that is 100% reliable), but it includes hundreds of very good pictures, and pictures never lie