molders

One down, one to go. Yesterdays auction was a long drawn out affair. It was still going at 7.30 when I left. The main medal group made 23K, which was about what I expected it to make, the supporting documentation which was all in a box was very good with lots of invites to Republican functions, signed Dev items etc. It was a very nice group. Collectors may also be interested to know that both of the sword of light Bolands Mills badges in the Kavanagh medal lots, were hall marked and stamped "Sterling" on the rear. Both lots also had the original boxes that these badges were presented in; clear plastic face with grey plastic back. I got a few lots but was most pleased with the Sweetman IV belt/bandolier lot. In my opinion both are of pre-1916 construction. The belt buckle is made from a ferrous metal and the bandolier is of non-standard British Army construction. Also in this lot was a set of early IV wool puttees, Sweetmans leather case and the bag of shot for a black powder pistol. It will be interesting to see how Adams goes. Overall I felt that prices at yesterdays sale were about what I had expected, (except for the Fianna medal lot) Some of the postcard lots made surprisingly good prices, but some of the top end letters I think went "cheap". Anyone else have an opinion on yesterdays sale? Anyone buy any of the "big" lots?

The other auction is in Adams. I viewed Whytes today, some nice stuff in it but nothing too exciting in it for me. Lots of books and other non-related items but there are a few good Collins/Ashe letters. Anyone want to guess at the price that the two good medal lots will end up?

Not me either, didn't even bid on this one. I'm holding off buying anything at the moment till I see whats in Adams.

Hi Interesting thread, I was in the Defence Forces in the late 1980s as an apprentice and we had to buy all our own tools and books and while on exercises we also had to provide at our own expense; our own quality socks, camo face paint, tin openers, net neck scarves, "Skip caps"- wooly type cap, insect repellent, gas stoves etc. Pretty much everything even down to the rubber ring used to hold the camo cover on the helmet. We were only issued one pair of green combats and if they got holed or torn that was hard luck, you mended and made do until the next issue. Army bargains on Capel Street did a lot of business with Irish soldiers! I have a newspaper cutting from 1988 and its a full page article on how the Army provided us with sun tan lotion while we where on exercise in Kilbride, big deal!!

I've been following the "results as they come in" for the remainder of Tynans items and in my opinion some of the items in the group made, (in relative terms) surprisingly low prices. ?1020 for a Comrac doesn't raise any eyebrows at this stage. Anybody else any thoughts on the prices achieved?

As someone who has been involved in the bidding on some recent medal group sales I agree fully with the last couple of posts. I think that the top end of the Irish medal market has now reached a stage where 5 or 6 people compete against each other time after time, driving prices ever higher. I don't think that we'll ever return to the days of ?50 Comracs or ?200 1916 medals but we are now at a point where ordinary 1916 medals with no history or background are achieving prices of several thousand euro. I just can't see the logic in it at all. When compared to other areas of militaria, that amount of money would buy you a German WW2 Knights Cross with paperwork etc, a top end British gallantry award medal group, uniform collections, presentation swords etc. and those type of items are collected by a much larger group of collectors worldwide. Just think of how many Third Reich collectors that you meet at shows, auctions etc compared to the amount of people who can honestly say that they now actively collect 1916 related items. We are in a serious minority and yet we seem to be beating each other up at auction all the time. I don't know what the solution is, thats the beauty of the free market, but with regard to the present situation I for one certainly won't be going next to near Tynans 1916 medal on ebay. If I did every thime I looked at it I'd be reminded of the rest of his collection that has been scattered, and remember that if this guy makes a profit on the Tynan collection, he'll be encouraged to do this again. Having striped all of the history away from it what is his 1916 medal worth on its own?

That picture originally appeared in a recent An Cosantoir, from memory one from sometime around last August/September. The guy on the left is Commandant Robbie Kiely from Laois, I can't remember the other names but I think I still have the magazine in my office. If I can route it out I'll fill in the missing names tomorrow.

No problem Ed, as I mentioned I haven't posted here before but I just couldn't but add my "two cents" on this topic. On any level what happened to this group doesn't make sense to me. If your going to invest 30k in something and want out in a couple of weeks, a return of a few % on your investment doesn't appear all that attractive to me. Also your buying something that a few years ago was worth a fraction of the amount involved, will the market go down? Prices have been rising steeply in Republican militaria in the past few years but when the Tynan medal group only makes ?10,000 on ebay, is that a sign that the market has peaked, who knows? As a collector I was willing to pay there or there abouts for the Tynan group to own and research it, I wasn't interested in it on a cash value basis. If I had bought it at the auction, I may well have sold a lesser 1916 group from my own collection to finance it, but it would have been kept together. I had a similar "problem" earlier this year when I bought the Walker collection; http://www.adams.ie/BidCat/detail.asp?Sale...&LotRef=435 . A couple of weeks later his armband appeared on ebay. Adams had not included it with the medals and left it in the display case. A dealer bought it (incidentially the same one thats currently selling Tynans medals) just after the sale when Adams returned it to the family, and listed it on ebay. At the time I chased it up to ?4,000 and ended up as the under-bidder, not because I though that a 1916 armband is worth that kind of money but because it was Walkers, and I wanted to reunite it with his medal group. At ?4,000 I had to bow out but at least I gave it a shot.

Hello, this is my first post on this forum but given the topic I couldn't resist in posting. I viewed the Tynan lot at Whytes and have to say that it was the finest and most complete collection that I have yet come across. It had everything in it, and told one Volunteer stories from the formation of the Volunteers in 1914 (his 1914 dated IV membership card currently on ebay) to the civil war (the 1923 dated internment order signed by Richard Mulcahy, which was sold in the original "cull" on ebay a couple of weeks ago). I have seen many other 1916 medal groups both for sale and in private collections but not one matched the Tynan collection. In my opinion it merited serious study and while I agree with the principle of private property and a persons right to dispose of their property as they best see fit, at the very least this collection should have been documented and recorded. All of the letters should have been transcribed and copied, and everything photographed and recorded. What actually happened was that the original group of 16 items went on ebay shortly after they were bought and when the rest of the items didn't sell as a group they have now been offered for sale individually. In my opinion splitting the paperwork group was just as much, if not more, of a "historical" crime as splitting the medal group. The groups of prison letters, firstly as a Republican prisoner during the War of Independence, and later as a Republican prisoner during the Civil War were a near unique collection. Along with the rest of the collection they told an individuals story, pretty much from start to finish (depending on your own point of view!). Again from my own opinion and speaking from a strictly business point of view; I was at the Whytes auction and gave the Tynan group a shot, I wasn't the under bidder but I wasn't far off and at 25,000 Euro plus fees I though that the collection sold for what it was worth. If I wanted to invest 30,000 Euro in something that I didn't have any great interest in and wanted a quick get out then I'd be looking for a much higher return then it appears the seller is going to achieve with this group. To finish up I'd also like to point out that Whytes auction house themselves split Tynan's group into two, the collection that sold for 25k and another lot of mainly paperwork from the 1930's/40s that also came from the Tynan family.