Bavaria

Bavarian Merit Cross for 1870/71, A. Hausinger

and it´s brother: maker E. Quellhorst

Deal all,

actually the colour changed from red to blue and then back to blue: the early cases for the MVO and MVK had been in a dark red/wine red. See a case for an early MVO (Ritterkreuz 1. or 2. class) from A. Hausinger who produced only until 1876. Later types, also pre-1914, had been blue and changed during WW1 to red.

No idea why they changed the colours, at least the motivation to go with blue might be that it´s a national colour for Bavaria "Weiss-Blau".

Kind regards

Rudi

Hi Chris,

this is a Weiss.

Best regards

Rudi

Hello,

the former bearer should have been a Bavarian veteran, because the Bavarian MVK or MVO is at first position.

In my opition, 3rd and 4th position belongs also to Bavarian medals:

3rd Jubilee medal from 1905 or Luitpold medal (Bronze, awarded 1911 with the Jubilee-medal - this was due to 90th birthday of Prinzregent Luitpold). The 4th position might be for Goldene Hochzeitsjubiläumsmünze 1923 (worn with same ribbon like Jubilee medal).

I just miss a Long service award. Officer with no permanent term of service?

Best regards

Rudi

It seems to be common, that there was some time between the real award ("fix the EK on the soldier´s breast") and also doing the paper work ("also give him his document"). Here is an other document of 1. JgRgt: Jäger Meyer got his EK on 11th of November 1916 and his document also in July 1917.

Until April 1917 the regiment participated in the Romanian-campaign and they were in trench warfare during June and July 1917, but at Oberelsaß (quite calm).

So it seems they used the time doing administration work.

Here is a "Vorläufiges Besitzzeugnis" of 1. Jäger-Regiment to a Fähnrich of 2. JgBtl, who was awarded his EK II at the 20th of July 1916, but the document was issued at the 12th July of 1917, almost one year later! OK, it might be a second document due to loosing the first one (but we don´t know).

Please pay attention to the signature: Oberstleutnant (later Oberst) Karl Paulus, (Pour le Merite in 1918).

Hello Chis

The Leiber-document is amazing! I can´t remember that I´ve ever seen one before.

I know the first Alpenkorps-document for Iron Crosses (black-and-white printing), but I haven´t one in my collection (not yet).

My earliest document is attached below, but it just witnesses, that this soldier got his EK at the 24.12.1916, but unfortunaltelly not, when he got this certificate.

Hello Chris,

I´ve several EK documents and I can itentify this types:

1st type: from "Kunst im Druck", "Italien" and "Nord-Frankreich" is not mentioned at the battle-colums at the left and on the right side,

2nd type: from "Dietz", "Italien" and "Nord-Frankreich" are mentioned at the battle-colums.

Usually the soldiers get first a interim/preliminary document for their EK and later a handsome EK-document (e.g. "Vorläufiges Besitzzeugnis") such as the Alpenkoprs-document. Between both dates some time passed by and in the end they used just the documents they had available. So I have 2 documents for soldiers who got their EK at the 28th of October 1917. One document ist a 1st type signed by v. Krafft (also he wasn´t commander anymore!) and the other one ist a 2nd type signed by v. Tutschek.

v. Tutschek´s signature can also found on both types.

Regards

Rudi

Hello Chris,

Your first signature is from GenLt Ludwig Ritter von Tutscheck, third and also last commander of the Alpenkorps ( since 5th of September 1917 until the end).

The second one is from GenLt Leo Sonntag, a Prussion General who was commander between 1st of March 1917 until 4th of September 1917.

The first commander of the Alpenkorps was Gen Konrad Krafft von Dellmensingen until the 28th of February 1917. A picture of his signature is attached below.

Regards

Rudi

Hello

Well, I can´t recall if the pattern, but I think it was the same on all sides. The upper baton is the Prussian one, thats right.

Regards

Rudi

Hello

The Bayerisches Armeemuseum (Bavarian Army Museum) in Ingolstadt has 3 Field Marshal batons of King Ludwig III.: his Bavarian parade baton and both of his interim batons (Bavarian and Prussian).

I took some pictures, whenn I was there last time. Due to the glass cas it was not easy to make good pictures.

Regards

Rudi

Here is a small group to an NCO of Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 47. The Bavarian King was colonel in chief of this regiment, so the regiment´s soldiers also get some Bavarian MVK.

The awarded soldier, Bruno Märkel survived the war and was a aspirant engine-driver in 1934.

Regards

Rudi

A further award of an MVK 3a but to a Prussian Oberjäger. Units were not mentioned on the documents in the second half of the war. So we can just guess in which he served (maybe Reserve-Jägerbataillon 10 or 14?).

Someone wrote "MGK" (=Maschinen-Gewehr-Kompanie) on it at the upper right corner with a pencil.

It seems that some soldiers lost their documents and tried to get an affirmation of the award. Here are two of this affirmation: one is official copy ("Abschrift") and the other one refers to the military papers/pass that he really get the MVK.

Regards

Rudi

The award of two MVKs to one soldier was also common during WW1, but not often to find these documents. Here is such a group for a Gefreiter and later Vizefeldwebel of the Bavarian 21. IR. He served in this unit the whole war. Unfortunaltelly I have no further documents of him.

Amazing documents. I like especially the one´s for Jäger. Here is one for a Fahnenjunker-Unteroffizier of the 1. Jägerregiment.

What do you think about this one ?? It was complete with box

I was bidding but it went for 306 euro , is it real then it was a nice price .... otherwise pew

This MVK 2a is from Leser (2nd or 3rd type). I´m quite sure, that swords had been removed. Didn´t it also have a mark "900" in the cylinder? Since autumn 1914 just the medaillons for the 2nd classes were made from silver (contract with the makers), so the mark was not genuine.

Jeffseka: your MVK shown in post 286/288 was made by Deschler, who used marks not on every MVK.

Regards

Rudi

Which marks has the Bavarian MVO (backside below the ring)? 980 or 950?

It might be made from "Weiss" ("WCo") and that´s not a good sign.

Regards

Rudi

Yes, I think you are right that it´s Freiherr von Speidels signature.

The card mentiones a "Verdienst-Kreuz mit Schwertern II. Klasse". As a Bavarian he might get a Bavarian Militär-Verdienstkreuz. But a 2nd class for a private? Just if it is the 2nd pattern of the Militär-Verdienstkreuz, awarded during 1905-1913. After 1913 he had to be a Vizefeldwebel or Feldwebel (staff seargeant/seargeant first class).

Usually during the colonial wars a soldier was first awarded with a Prussian medal and than by his "nation". So I think the Kaiser-Wilhelms-Medaille could be the war merit medal (Militär-Ehrenzeichen). Maybe after his death nobody of his relatives in Bavaria knew the correct name of this medal and just created this name.

What do you think?

Regards

Hello

@Sergio:

Your MVK shown in post #173-179 is a piece produced after 1918. It has no details form one of the official 5 Bavarian makers (Deschler, Hemmerle, Lauer, Leser and Weiss). It should be from the 1920/30ies, but these types are often found (also on genuine bars). So stil a nice item.

@dond:

It´s the same with your MVK 2nd class with crown and swords. Also a piece after 1918. The "L" is very specific. Unfortunatelly I can´t tell you the maker, but Godet, Steinhauer & Lück, Sedlaczek used to produced them for veteran´s demand after 1918.

Also a beautiful piece!

Kind regars

Rudi

Hello

Shouldn´t the mark also be "LÖTH" instead of "LÖTIG"?

Kind regards

Rudi

Hello

Indeed it´s easy to remove swords from MVKs.

But there ist sometimes the possibilitiy to see some prints/scratches at the upper arm of a MVK (where the swords had been formerly fixed). You can see some examples for these scratches at attached picture. I´ve marked them with a red arrow.

You can also see a scratch at the MVK at post nr. 10.

The MVK at Post nr. 1-4 is a late Weiss (e.g. design of the lion). It´s a good example, that not all MVK with removed swords shows these scratches.

But beware: even swords from early Leser can be removed!

Kind regards

Rudi

Also in 1911 officers and NCO, who had no Jubiläumsmedaille, got the Prinzregent Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze. But this medal was not worn with the red ribbon, it was worn with the ribbon of the Jubiläumsmedaille (red with green edges).

Here is a document also with the additon "am Bande der Jubiläumsmedaille"

In 1911 the crown was established for all 3 classes. The reason was also the birthday of the Prinzregent.

First you had to have the class without crown, and then you got the medal with crown. It was still for merit and still with red ribbon.

Here a Bronze medal with crown on a single bar.