hipnos

My dearest Miguel.... please. you are NOT a thorn in anyone's side(s) at all ever...

You will never be frowned upon for asking questions. It doesn't matter how long you have been collecting. The day any of us stop learning is the day we should stop collecting. There's always something new to discover, more knowledge to gain, more doors to open. I think you're feeling the frustration older members have when a newer collector makes mistakes.

No one is perfect, we all make mistakes... I made one this morning at a show that cost me $50. My fault, not the seller's at all. Please, please, please...... NEVER stop asking questions!

But for the sake of your own sanity (and maybe for your pocketbook too) ask many questions before you spend your hard-earned money. I have been doing this a very long time and guess what..... I always ask a fellow collector and/or friend their opinion. It is only when I am 101% positive of what I am doing that I buy.... doesn't happen all that often!!

If anything... it's getting harder and harder as the fakers are working just as hard as us except they are working to steal and we are trying to learn how not to be stolen from.

That doesn't mean people do not make honest mistakes... it happens. It's the resolution of the honest mistake that will demonstrate a fellow collector's character. Remember... none of us are perfect no matter how hard we try. But, some people here have more experience and many of us have lost thousands of dollars on bad pieces.... we just don't want to see someone else get hurt. (If I may be so bold as to speak for many of us?)

Keep coming back, keep reading, keep learning.

The only bad question........

...... well, it will be the one you do not ask!

Thanks from the heart

Miguel

Miguel,

please post a better picture of the entries in the award book. In some cases the first entries are correct and some forger ad a few more awards to make the group more valuable. All is possible.

The date 1995 for the first entry Order of Glory III 702.391 seems to be most likely possible.

The military merit medal is from 1947 and the

Bravery medal from 1944/1945.

Sometimes the soldier had two award books and the awards were reunite in one book. Sometimes (rare) the soldier add the awards himself in one book.

If you are interested in research, research the Order of Glory 3rd class with it?s serial number.

regards

Andreas

I?m already send the number of the slava 3c. for research. Sorry for the piocs but with 110k is difficult to have a clear pic of the scans. Perhaps I can send it to you by normal email, if you send me your private adress.

Thanks To all for your time and knowledge.

Miguel

What you means is that it?s uncertain that the precedence order (wrong as you say), match exactly the booklet inscription...?

I understand that what you say it?s improbably that the guy won his awards in the same precedence order they shows in the booklet?

Well I have never think about the prceedence of the military merit and the bravery...it seem reasonable that bravery cames before...

If you have time I would have a precedence list of USSR awards...By the way I was thinking that in campaign medals and others similar...the precedence is no existent or as the medals were awarded...it?isn?t??

Thanks I?m return to the school with all this stuff...

regards

Miguel

And the award entry page........

Fisrt of all: I?m want to say 3thd class, of couse... All the others things you say... &

Miguel.......

PS/ Not a good end of week

Though I'm not 100% convinced the 2nd bar is a put together. When it was shown on an earlier thread, came we to this clue without any doubt?! Wasn't navy rather suggested from the "frack style" than from the combination? That's an very early Red Eagle order (meaning to a not too long served officer), as they were given rather to navy than to army. The long service awards, the Sileasian eagle, the Flanderncross and all that suggest navy, at least to me. A Frackspange for civilian wear though, of course.

The 3rd one looks pretty much to be a modern put together from am-militaria or a similar seller, but I cannot prove it as I don't find it in my data base right now. Though here I'm quite sure it's "bad".

The whole thing is quite embarrasing. I?m always the feeling that I?m a thorn on the moderator?s /expert?s side in the forum because of I?m always presenting questions, that to the best part of you must seem 1st grade school questions...I?ve just begin to buy books on the Imperial German matter but it?isn?t enough. We must admit that the learning process must include personal errors before learn really the trade. As I?ve never own a bar out of un-searchables NCO ones, I?was really eager to find one in my expending possibilities and a cross interest in swap medals made for me possible to got this pretty looking Bar, I must admit that Noor tell me about this was a devolution from another buyer on thr grounds of a UV-brighting of a Ribbon, but with no another similar offer in the scope of my possibilities (heiko magnificent bars are quite out of my spending-money possibilities)...

I can?t pass on this offer...well...That?s learning.

I?m very grateful to all the big brains here and speciallly rick that ever has a sound advice and own?s a encyclopaedic knowledge on the matter, like Heiko. and others.

I must say that I was someway intrigued for the frequency of frackspange...I was thinking that a lot of officers/officials must have 2 bars...one for bearing with the frack and another with the uniform. That puzzled me.??

I don?t forget to give thanks to all of you for the added work of translate my self-learning english

We?ll continuing to learn here.

Greetings to all and goodspeed!!

Miguel

PS/ By the way: I?m asking before on the austrian bar and the hesse medal give us serious misgivings, but the price was enough fair as to win the bar without thinking about (I?m surprised whe I win it), and I think is always an asset to sell in ebay again...)

I?ve just bought this little group. As it is authentic...??, I?m researching for the Battle records if possible.

Name is ver Strange: "Papu", and i wastold that the first name is a very obsolete one...

Any comment will be wellcome

Regards

miguel

your little Frackspange is even better this way than with noncom-ribbon!!!! It is the "third type" .... noncom-EK on combattant ribbon for homeservice - great bar!!!!

Wow, I never think i was possible...Can you explain me more about this EK2 non combat with combat ribbon???

Thanks Heiko

Miguel

A "Big" and somewhat strange AH bar Mounted like a Imperial german and with a Hesse bravery medal (and 2 Bulgarian medals)

A Splendid frackspange, you sure knows of the forum...

A litte and neat frackspange...sorry the EK2 don?t come with the non combatant ribbon

It takes some time but they come home...

Comments are wellcome

Miguel

Yes, but that is part of the TRICK. He is "honest" about it being a fake without SAYING it is a fake-- he says "no guaranty of originality."

When you see those words...

RUN AWAY.

Of course, someone "guaranteeing" something is original STILL does not mean that it IS original. A very common English language trick is to say something is "authentic." Not REAL, just "looks real." Same words used to cheat.

This guy has figured out a perfect way to use eCrap to sell garbage and never make refunds. They LOVE "businessmen" like him.

thanks Rick...I?ll tell you...

Miguel

Don't you think it's really neat when a piece like this pops up that so many of us have never seen before? Almost 100 years later and things still appear that no-one has seen!!

As you can seen a lot of medals/crosses in this bar are of the unofficial type like veteran leagues assoc, etc...(Nrs.: 4,5, 7, 8, 9 & 10) and so on (Crosses from Austria, Germany etc...), so I think this can justify that some of this crosse aren?t see so frequently in a bar.

Miguel

Are we not the most geeky group of laddies you ever have seen?

We sit around and brag about our Epsons as if they were muscle cars... I think we should form a club. "MC Epsonfans"... if we shorten "Militaria collector" to "MC" folks will think we are bikers and leave us alone :-)

What will we do if Epson stops making our favourite toys???? There is no substitute!

What model of epson do you have?? 3300?? what?s their maximun definition (teorical)??

Miguel

I would agree.... the ribbon colors do suggest Bulgaria...

I think you?re mixing the ribbons with the next medal: a Bulgarian Soldiers Bravery cross (1st or 2nd class)...this had the "Italian/hungarian colours on the ribbon

Greetings

Miguel

His answer is you bought it when the description said "no guaranty of originality," so screw you (politely). And he is right. He stated up front it was crap-- and you bought it anyway.

You're screwed.

eCrap aids, comforts, abets, and encourages dealers like him.

It is always better to ask BEFORE buying than AFTER.

That?s not question about ask before. The problem is that if you have not a better pic to see...(and of course, no close-up pics of the sides), it?s not easy to know if this piece is or not a correct one. (For me). Possibly, (As I?ve only liitle knowledge of the german lenguage, I don?t understand very well their understatetement ("Keine originalit?t"), -and my brain read the thing he want to read- .

Anyway If you knows the item you sell is a fake you can made it more plainly as, insist, `posting: "copie"/"Kopie" and everybody knows, at first reading, what you?re bidding at... And just four days ago I have receive my "Nimmerg?t"...

Well, You can learn of all this things... (I hope)

Thanks

Miguel

... upppsss - this one! Sorry!

It seems to me, IMHO, A sort of red cross/ humanitary medal. The translation is something like: "Soccour and had Hope"

greetings

miguel

This the aswer the seller send to me: I think there is a long way between not original (Copie) and simply...A FAKE!!

so take note of the seller: You can?t trust the items this guy (struppi60motorrad) sell...

regards

Miguel

"Dear hipnos,

Hallo,die Medallie wurde unter vorbehalt verkauft!

In der Beschreibung steht "KEINE GARANTIE AUF ORGINALIT?T"!!!!

MfG M.R."

- struppi60motorrad Did this answer your question? If not, let the seller know.

Item and user details

Item Title: S?dwestafrika-Denkm?nze

Item Number: 110253921891

Item URL: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...em=110253921891

End Date: May-23-08 00:39:15 PDT

From User: struppi60motorrad (1953)

99.4% Positive Feedback

Member since Sep-09-03 in Deutschland"

[quote name='hipnos' date='May 27 2008, 23:05 ' post='26817

I can?t believe that a not so "rare" medal can be subject of a forgery...

Send it back!!

I too was unfortunate to purchase one of these a few years ago.

Thanks lads, I know I?m the only one...

Miguel

............................... Valencia.....hmmmm, that`s by the mediterranian sea if i am right...............go to the beach and throw this medal in the sea..............

or......................

................try to return it as fast as you can!!!

That?s the thing I am "en train de faire" like the french say...Thanks...Anyway, difficult to see these details with the little pics the seller post at eBay...

Regards

Miguel

PS/ Yes, Valencia it?s at the seaside. We have a very temperate climate and your are invited to come here to eat some authentic paella rice dishes and

have a splendid afternoon "siesta"...This may has been very wet for spain...that?s great because after this no rain till Octobre!!!, save some summer storms.

The reverse

The obverse...

the ribbon is new....the rings are new.....the medal can we see the front of the medal please

More pics

Miguel

Gentlemen I ask you valuable opinion on this medal, just received and very near a Fake...I can see clearly the line of union betwenn 2 halfs of the medal (ob and rev), and the Surface is pitted...

I need more opinion before try to return the medal and ask for my money...

I can?t believe that a not so "rare" medal can be subject of a forgery...

regards

and thanks beforehand

Miguel

Welcome your thoughts on this little puppy, just purchased also th criteria for the Finnish awards, as ever thanks, Paul

I?ve just bough another similar (finn medal, but no bravery medal) bar...this time he comes with EKII, but a Kolonial denkm?tze is missing...I?m searching for one.

Regards and Greetings

Miguel

The seller put "false" (falsch?ng) in the auction??. It?s a new "tactik"???

What do you think of these crosses???