hipnos

Reverse. Curiously not Austrian commemorative war medal?

I came across this and bid one time...

Well I win it...What do you think??. Real thing or "Composite"?

All your comments are wellcome

As you can see the mount is german in Style...But only a German Medal is present

Regards

Miguel

Obverse

Gentlemen,

many thanks for your input on this, on Saturday I will inform the owner with regards the info supplied

as he will be attending our local Hobby Club meeting in Deva on Saturday17th May 2008.

Kevin in Deva.

Hello Kevin. Thanks for your support in the forum.

Do you have some links to a makers list of the EK in the WW1 (Imperial and TR)??

Thanks

PS/Have you read my post?

Hello,

this St.Stephen's-like cross is not exactly a fantasy order, but it's the Knight's Cross of the "Ungarisches adeliges Kapitel-Kreuz", or "Chapter's Cross of the Hungarian Nobility"; an association of Hungarian nobles, founded in Luzern (Switzerland), on 19. September 1960.

The decoration was awarded depending on the title's level; in other words, the Knight's Cross was intended to the lower grades of nobility, patrices with coat-of-arms and "Vit?z".

The small "defect" we see on the left side of the crown suspension, is an evidence that the piece was produced by Rothe & Neffe, Vienna. The plain reverse medallion was engraved with a progressive number.

The obverse medallion, although not enamelled, resembles that of the "Magyar Erdemrend", or Hungarian Merit Order, from the Horthy period, 1922-1944, not that of the Order of the Sacred Crown.

The ribbon is also correct.

More info about this private decoration can be found on Prochazka, II Edition, Vol. 4, pages 258-259.

Best wishes,

Enzo

Splendid information, Thanks Enzo

miguel

hello gents,

thanks for the many replies, you really gave me usefull information and tips, I had no idea of them myself.

I already found the monnaie de paris book, should come in soon.

if anyone knows where I can buy others I like, please lett me know, I'm interested in these 2(although the others sound interesting as well):

Basier, L., and L. Brunet, Les Ordres Coloniaux Francais (Paris: Revue des Colonies et Pays de Protectorat, 1898)

SOUYRIS-ROLLAND "Guide des ordres, d?corations et m?dailles militaires 1814-1963" Paris 1979

furthermore I found this book:

Nicolas de ROFFIGNAC, ORDRES et MEDAILLES des PAYS D'AFRIQUE ? l'?poque POST-COLONIALE

de 1960 ? nos jours

it describes 126 orders and medals, and the French colonial countries are all mentioned in the list, but that's all I know, I have no idea if it would be of any use.

has anyone heard of or seen this book, is it any good?

I know some orders have stopped to excist in 1963, but if it is from 1960 untill now they might be in it (and some orders still excists).

btw, the reason I'm asking is because I now started collecting some of those colonial orders(don't have much yet), I want to use the books for when I buy orders, but also I'm putting it on paper(for myself) and want to get the information from books and use them as reference.

Here's an example, I bought a picture book and describe all my orders (not an official book, just for myself about my collection),

I describe the history of the orders and on the right page are pictures(taken myself of my own orders)+ information(like sizes and if possible to whom it was awarded).

example, legion d'honneur:

thanks for the help, and thanks in advance if anyone can tell me where to find the other 2 books I'm looking for.

kind regards,

Roeland

I have in "My Albums", sub directory : "A veriety of awards" 2 colonial orders. Black star of Benin ans star of Anjouan. You can see it if you wants. Regards

Miguel

To all:

Another very nice image of an unidentified HSU.

Regards,

slava1stclass

wow!!! Impresing display!!!!!

And was very, very beautiful

May she rest in Peace

Miguel

Nice bar - you outbid me by two euro. Congrats!!!

Since the listing only included a picture of the obverse, please post the reverse when you receive it. I'm curious if there is a maker's label on it. Also, the HC looks like it could be could be bronze

Sorry for outbidding...a lot of times I?ve just lost for a few ? in the last second...

When I got the Bar, I?ll post the obverse, of course. It seems very trim and neat...

Thanks again

Miguel

Hi,

If you have a look to all the pictures of that thread, you will see few others showing the breast star to "Merito en Campa?a" worn by German former members of the LC.

I guess that around 1000 german soldiers were awarded this high spanish decoration.

jacques

Thanks. I?ve pics from Spanish Pilots at the "Blue Squadron" (Escuadrilla azul), wearing his "Merito en campa?a" Breast star, but not luftwaffe german members...

Regards

miguel

Not "normal" but quite OK. Some sort of strange military official-- we see perfectly original bars like this sometimes-- just NEVER the award documents that could EXPLAIN them.

VERY bar.

Thanks Rick, quickly as ever...!!

Regards

Miguel

Frackspange Just Bought:

That is normal??, The EKII must have a No-combat ribbon??

thanks

Miguel

not a paratrooper but nevertheless interesting

Very Interesting as he was bearing a "Merito en Campa?a" breast medal in the left...Never I?ve see this medal on a german uniform...perhaps, because he is wearing a dress uniform.??

You can get casualty lists here: <a href="http://www.memorial-genweb.org/~memorial2/...se1418/arme.php" target="_blank">http://www.memorial-genweb.org/~memorial2/...se1418/arme.php</a>

RMZ for the Regular Zouave regiments (1-4, 7-9)

RMZT for the Mixtes regiments (1-4)

RZB for R?giments des Zouaves Bis (haven't a clue what these are - depot battalions?)

Thanks for your collaboration. Not knowing their name /and/or Regiment I?m afraid that it?ll be almost impossible to seach more...

Regards

Miguel

They are very curious this lads...

Miguel

PS/ Can you read the back of my photo ??...Go to the bed..it?s late here

Have a nice Day

Miguel

Is a demoted officer...?? Or simply he has got another GPW and for sake of simmetry he had changed the older placement... ??

Regards

Miguel

Hello all

Since the question was put as to what uniform the Zouaves wore during WW1, here is a picture of my own father as a Sous/Lieutenant with the 3rd, in August 1915. As you can see, they wore the traditional French uniform (which might have been kaki and not light grey-blue) with the caracteristic red "chechia". It seems that they had exchanged the slouching variety as worn with the dress uniform shown on the first picture fot the higher "tirailleur" type.

The pup was not normally part of the uniform.

Regards

Veteran

Thanks for compart this photo...The tall chechia could be conected with a later period than the slouch one represented in my pic???

Thanks again

miguel

Too bad we can't see the back of the medals... I reckon the Leo II commemorative could bee a "1905" (as opposed to a "1909" which wasn't struck untill the 1950's) The bar seems to have an apparent older age to me.

Nice bar, love it!

Thanks...

This afternoon I?ll open the showcase and made a pic of the medal?s rear

Regards

Miguel

1^er R?giment de Zouaves

1914 : Charleroi (21-23 August)

Battle of the Marne (6 - 13th Sept.) : Montmirail (9th Sept) Ch?teau-Thierry (10th Sept.) , Fismes (13th Sept.)

Battle of Flanders: L'Yser, Luyghem, Bixschoote, Maison du Passeur.

1915 : Flanders : Steenstraate, Lizerne

1916 : Battle of Verdun : Bois des Corbeaux et de Cumi?res (8-12th March)

Battle of the Somme : bois de Chaulnes, Le Pressoir, Ablaincourt (July-August)

1917 : Marne : Le Cornillet (14th May)

1918 : Attack on Matz (11th June) Aisne: Longpont, Villers-H?lon (18th July) Nampcel, Bl?rancourt L'Aisne (September)

Thanks again

Miguel

3^?me R?giment de Zouaves

Service and Battles

Date/Service

1852 - Organised and mustered in Philippeville, Algeria

1852 - 1854 Campaign in Algeria

1854 - 1855 Campaign in Russia (Crimean War)

1857 - Campaign against the Kabyles, Algeria

1859 - Campaign in Italy (Italian unification)

1860 - Algeria

1862 -1867 - Campaign in Mexico

1864 -1869 Algeria

1870 - 1871 Franco-Prussian War

1881 - Tunesia

1885 - 1886 Tonkin (Indochina)

1900 - China (Boxer uprising)

1908 - 1914 Morocco

1914 - 1918 - The Great War

1914 - Tracy-le-Val, France

1915 - Champagne, France

1916 - Verdun, France

1918 - Moreuil-Noyon, France

1940 -1945 - Second World War

1943 - Le Faid, Tunesia

1944 - 1945 - Europe

1945 - Germany

1956 1962 - Algeria (Algerian War)

1962 - Regiment disbanded

Awards

Date/Award

May 31, 1859 - M?daille d'Or de Milan

May 31, 1859 - M?daille d'Or al Valore Militaire

November 09, 1863 - Croix de la L?gion d'Honneur

1919 - Croix de la Guerre 1914-1918 with 6 Palmes 1919M?daille Italienne de la Valeur

1919 - M?daille Militaire

1945 - Croix de Guerre 1939-1945 with 2 Palmes

Colours

Date/Campaign

1854 - 1855 - Sevastopol, Crimea

1857 - Kabylen, Algeria

1859 - Palestro, Italy

1863 - San Lorenzo, Mexico

1908 - 1912 - Morocco

1915 - Champagne, France

1916 - Verdun, France

1918 - Moreuil-Noyon, France

1943 - Le Faid, France

1945 - Danube, Germany

Battle Order

Date/Order

1852 - 1914 - 3^?me R?giment de Zouaves

1914 - 1943 - 3^?me R?giment de Marche de Zouaves

1943 - 1949 - 3^?me Batallion de Zouaves Port?s

1949 - 1962 - 3^?me Batallion de Zouaves

Thanks it?s very interesting...Do you have the same for the others Zouave?s regiments??

Regards

Miguel

Hi Miguel and Eddie

It is not completely true. In 1914, the 8th and 9th Zouave regiment were assembled and joined the other four regiments.

At the end of the war, all those regiment were awarded with the L?gion d'honneur, except the 1st Regiment.

They were considered as an elite, with special traditions and uniforms... and deserved much respect considering their bravoure. The last Zouave Regiment desapeared last year. It was the 9th, which was a commando center in Givet in Northern France.

Yours

Bison

Thanks Bison, sorry for the w&b photos...

Regards

Miguel

Hey Stogieman...I don?t know that in Spain we are Known ( apart for the "Paella" and "Bullfighting") for medal?s fakes....

One never ends to know new things...

Regards

Miguel

PS/ By the way...of Knowledge....what?s the thing in this cross that make so obvious the forgery

Hello Miguel,

Indeed a neat display ! OK, so the medals aren't mounted in the right order and the last one in the row shouldn't be there as the higher class of the decoration only is supposed to be worn ... it's still a delightful little group and prettily displayed !

Small error in the title : not a policeman's group but one that belonged to a member of either the "Civil Guard" or the Fire Brigade.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Hello Hendrik...I?ll leave the bar as he is...But What?s exactly the correct order you think??. I suppouse that the leopold medal mus be in the last place, and the crown orden must go before the Civic decorations???

Thanks to all

Miguel

I know the medals are very normal (not so frequent with these ribbons)but, I love it

Regards

Miguel

Ok Thanks...I think Now I understand this little mess

regards

miguel

Alex, did you mean Fourth Class?

The addition of the crown denotes an additional, or subsequent award of the same grade of each class.

i.e. a second award.

"sub-class" isn't really the appropriate word in english. (I know, a second language for Miguel?)

Example: a Captain receives the MVO4wX (Fourth Class with Swords) for an engagement.

A month later he is awarded the Fourth Class a second time... He would be required to turn in his existing Fourth Class award. Upon receipt, they would issue him a Fourth Class award with the crown.

Rick Research actually has paperwork from the Bavarian Orders Chancelry that addresses this very practice!

Thanks Stogieman...that?s cristal clear now.

And, Thanks too, for the lenguage corrections, please don?t stop to tell me about all the un-english words that I misuse...I?m a self-taught person in English, and For me is important if you understand enough of my babble to got my idea...

Regards

Thanks Gentlemen, this should give Miguel and anyone else with an interest a lot to absorb & learn. Now that's what it's all about!

Cheers!

Thanks a lot, the only thing i don?t understand very well is that with the crown is a higher subclass than without...??? The same as in the Bulgarian bravery cross order, the 4th class is subdivided in 1st degree and second degree...?

Miguel