hipnos

Surely some of you can give me a clear picture of the precedence orden of this Bavarian Cross.

As I know:

First: The Military Verdients Order, (MVO) This is the one with blue enamels and w/ or wo/ flames , w/ or wo/swords, etc...(Can Have crown too??)

Second: The more common Military Verdienst Kreutz (MVK)...There are 3 classes or not ? (Silver , bronze...there exist a gold one??), the crown is a subgrade ?;... the zinc crosses are time war crosses corresponding to a silver class??? or another different lower class?

Please some know-how!!

Thanks...

Miguel

Rule No1-the better EK is the better buy! In case you must sell a damaged piece try to get your money out of it....leave it and wait for an undamaged one.A "KO" is easy to find

for~100?,an "S-W" is a bit more expensive,but still not so difficult to find.

Micha

Thanks a lot, I haven?t yet a EKI, and some are really expensive...surely in conection with some makers??. What are the more common (and cheaper) makers I?could find..?

Thanks

Miguel

@VtwinVince

It cames from Hermann Historica.

@Wild Card

So I am glad that events "sidetracked you", but hope these were not to bad...

No question, besides the connection to a medical person, the two Karl-Olga-Medals forces me, to bid on this bar and the paper belonging to the bar.

Here some more of it:

In the old photos the cross on the extreme left (right of the wearer), is a Charlotte cross???

Miguel

Thanks lads, really you make me feel better fot don?t buy it. ?. anyway, need a push sometimes...

reagards ... and if you comes to Valencia sometime (one never can say where one can ends )...I?ll pay you three to four rounds of Beer

Miguel

Bonsoir Miguel,

Difficult to tell the regiments from that view : the regiments are indeed distinguished by the colour of the false pocket design within the braiding of their spencer :

1st: Red

2nd: White

3rd: Yellow

4th: Dark Blue

See some examples down this page :

<a href="http://www.military-photos.com/zouave2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.military-photos.com/zouave2.htm</a>

Actually with old orthochromatic photo processes, the only one that can really be told is the White of the 2nd Zouaves (Red, Yellow and Dark blue turning out amazingly alike).

I do share Chris's learnt opinion - looks like a KIA set.

Suerte !

Jerome

Thanks to all

Miguel

Miguel,

I have learned to NOT buy in the hat of the moment. When we see something that has a clock or very limited time, we tend to not be able to think logically or clearly. If I were you, I would pass, after the sale is over you will probably be glad. A long time ago, I bought a few "must" haves just because it was at auction and I thougt it was the "only one" out there, I regretted it afterwards and sold the piece within a few months at a loss.

I just think this bar would be a hard one to move if you wanted to sell, and maybe you would take a loss as well...

Probably you have the reason...the "must have" of today will be the "must sell" of tomorrow...

The problem is that some days ago I?ve lost an auction with a perfect St. Heirich in the nick of time...so the thing is burning slowly undersurface...

Regards

Miguel

Hi,

I'm still learning here but nevertheless, my opinion is that the whole bar is not visually appealing (it is ugly), and looks like it has not been taken care of. It also looks like someone has installed a makeshift pin on the reverse. The red backing looks "messed" with to me, especially at the bottom. I would hold out for a more aesthetically pleasing example...but that is me.

Thanks, that?s the problem...I?ve see anothers within a group a lot more attractive...or appealing...the trouble is that there are not a lot of them swirling around...and this has a convenient price...but I dont love it...

Thanks Again

Miguel

Doesn't look like an issue piece. It's probably a copy. Might be a "wearer's copy" but why bother?

Excuse me ...It?s a sarcasm????

Miguel

Like the Quimera, the Sphinx, or the Griffon.... or.... I can?t resist the opportunity of send you to this ludicrous exemple of Seller wisdom: Please go to: Artikelnummer: 140230009396.

Regards

Thanks

PS/ Box+ribbon+order Mix up. shake well and serve cool...

Gentlemen, Stogiemann...

I?m been interested in a Sachsen bar with St. Heinrich medal...I?ve just find one, but the medals look a little shabby, as if not were silver...I?m in the moment to bid...but ...I have some strange feeling. Please send me your opinions...The matter could be resolved in question of minutes...

Thanks a lot. This is a little of abuse, I know...

Miguel

Well, in the first picture.. it states "KO Mark"... but that's not the mark on the pin. The pin is marked "S-W", for Sye & Wagner. The case is almost certainly a reproduction, based strictly on the image shown. I'll bet parts of it will glow under a UV light. The core of the cross is broken at the base/near the center of the top arm. It appears that the pin hinge and clasp have been replaced. The cross itself might be real, but the pictures are so shoddy, why bother?

It's easy enough to find undamaged specimans of both "KO" & "S-W" crosses. Why roll the dice on a "maybe"?

They are 2 different EK, the interest is because their price in this moment is somewhat lower than the EK one normaly see at eBay or another forums...lower that 100?... That?s why this same Good Price makes me suspicious...

Thanks

Miguel

Hello, I?m bidding for this medal...The only pic you ( and I) can Get is this one...Any of you, with this scanty information, can risk a declaration on the Correction or not of this cross??

And for this one I?m too bidding???

Thanks

Miguel

I bought some months ago this set. The man seems a Zouave and the medals Medaille militaire and Croix de guerre (1914-18), dated the set in the WWI, not any inscriptipn on the photo rear except "carte postale"... but where are the zouve regiments, and what are their numbers??, Any help will be wellcomed!!

Thanks a lot

Miguel

That's a start!

Thank you!

Jason

Consult with hendrik at hendrik?s corner, medalnet. he knows everithing you wants to know on belgian medals!!!!

regards

Miguel

Noor,

Let's hear what some of our more specialized collegues think, but I personally would not get in a big hurry to look for a ribbon and suspension for this

Marc

I?ve never see such example with this number on the cross upper arm: 1/M. By the way if your list is correct and is for all classes of the St. Georg, this come from the russo-japanese war...

On the ribbons, you can put, as a stop gap, if the GMIC don?t anathemize this, a USSR Victory over germany mount (kolodka), if you wants I have some replacement ribbon too...

regards

Miguel.

PS/ Remind the bar pics...Below is the mine, 3th class, SNr: 128161 (Kaucassus??)

Hallo hipnos

To my eye it looks like the 1934 Hindenberg Cross has been tacked on to the left front of the bar.

The last two medals on the first bar are Romanian:

The Romanian Order of the Star on Military virtue ribbon, strangely the Order of the Star has no swords (to indicate a wartime issue!!!) so therefore is a civil issue and should not be on a Military Virtur ribbon.

and the PELES Castle Medel, awarded to people who were present at the opening of the Romanian Royal Castle of Peles.

In WW1 Romania was fighting against the Germans, Austrians, etc..

Any chance to see close up pictures, and pictures of the rear.

Kevin in Deva.

Kev: I?ve see that the romanian medals are in the correct place, to the last of the Bar, The ribon of the star of romania, 1st type is the correct, if you look carefully there are two blue lines at the side of the ribbon that in the first type is the correct one...the "militara virtute" has only a blue line at both sides of the ribbon and the blue is lighter (take a look at my romanian bars at the showcase). I?ve never see a St Michael Bavarian merit cross, and two hohenzollern medals in the same bar (but probably I haven?t see so many like you and rick...). The Hindemburg cross in the first place is the piece that puzzled me...

I?ve see both at ebay and again in the second bar... I?d never see (out of books) a Mecklemburg wendish crown merit cross...and again: Why the prussian make so prominent the kriegshilfe cross ...???. A EKII would be a better looking first place for the bar...(I know, I know...that?s a capital sin...)

thanks to all of you...I must be the larges debtor in beers to all of you.....

Miguel

PS/ As I say you the bars are in ebay, impossible to show the rear face of both bars

Gentlemen, What do you think...

Miguel

and this other??

highfive,

PayPal will definitely help you recover your money, as long as you meet several conditions.

1. Regardless of whether the seller stated "no refunds", you will receive a refund if the item is "substantially not as described". In other words, as long as he stated that it was original or authentic and you can prove that it is not, he will be required to return your funds. If he has PayPal's $2,000 protection (which he does) and refuses, PayPal will give you up to $2,000 out of their pocket! However, (for others out there reading this) If you assumed the item was original, but did not say so in so many words, you are out of luck.

2. You must file a dispute claim with payPal within a certain time limit. Hopefully, you are still within that limit, or you are out of luck.

3. They will require written documentation from a recognized authority or respected dealer, etc, to back up your claim of a fake. This is not hard if it really is fake. Go to sovietauthentications.com and Alexei will help you. (Right now he is on vacation until May 10)

Just a suggestion for everyone....Do NOT bid on Ebay items unless seller has $2,000 buyer protection..... pay only with PayPal, they will protect you.... make sure the seller says "original or authentic" in writing.... file a dispute promptly.

Steve

Gentlemen: I?ve noticed that a higher proprotion of sellers at eBay.de, don?t have PayPal and insist in Bank transference, that, as you know leave you totally unprotected and make much more difficult to enforce your money devolution.

I remind that the only time I have a problem in ebay was with a geman seller that never send me an EK 1class I?ve bought (and payed by Int.Money Order). eBay can?t do nothing to the respect...Of course I?m not saying that the bulk of german sellers are more "thieves" that the rest but that their relative preference by don?t use PayPal leave the buyer more defenceless...

Regards

Miguel

I?ve see this medal at eBay, but the face shows some pitted surface that make me feel unsure...

What do you think??

Thanks

Miguel

I think on the bar must exist place for anouther award. Please check carefully the place near the service cross.....

Yes the first class I?ve see is in silver with enameled center, but I do?t know if there is a "gild loss" and was originally gilded...

I?ve checked the place But, I can see an eyelet, but I can?t see where another order/medal can be placed (it?s not enough space...)

What are you thinking...???

Miguel

pre Soviet, Imperial 75 anniversary Jeton. 1908c

Civil school.

No ribbon . Worn on a chain as a fob.

George

Thanks a lot. I don?t collect this type of items, if you?re interested tell me. I?ll trade for imperial items(german), or romanian, bulgarian, etc...

Miguel

10th anniversary of 28 April 1945-1955?

Whatever occasion that could have been?

Just think of hundreds of thousands of Soviet awards all on 3 November 1944...

so: is it possible that the Bulgarian Red Banner Order, in 1955, was nothing more than a 10 years service award,before the long service medals were created?

Hello : I?ve a Red Flag order, no booklet, but the medal is in good shape with the enemels perfect...and serial number is 11139

It?s possible to date this award???

Miguel

Russian. Technological Institute in St. Petersburg.

Thanksa lot : Pre - soviet epoch I suppose??. Do you Know the ribbon he could bear??

Regards

Miguel

Hi Gentlemen,

I agree with Bolgarian in principle. Awards worn by Bulgarian royal military and civil service members officially should follow proper sequence of orders, decorations, and medals in order of seniority and award date (for foreign awards following national ones).

However, I've seen about 100 Bulgarian royal bars over the past 40 years "in the flesh" and photos or illustrations of maybe 300+ others. Maybe half are mounted in the "correct" order and the others...hard to say. Members of Princess Clementine's regiment sometimes had her official "death" commemorative mounted ahead of their long service awards. (An example in the former military museum in Sofia.) Some otherwise "normal" civil bars include the apparently unofficial Plodiv fair 30 mm medal. A few years ago, FJP auctions sold a "home-made" bar with the Balkan and WWI commemoratives ahead of a Merit Medal!

Other considerations: Apparently an imperial Russian mounting style was used from about 1878 to mid-Ferdinand and an imperial German style from mid-Ferdinand to late Boris. There are as many exceptions to this rule as examples. And "home-made" examples are all over too.

This is a fascinating but little explored area.

Thanks again for sharing this bar!

Thank to both for your opinions. I was thinking that the officers cross for X years was gilded..., that?s my error...And I was wrong to denominate "medal" au lieu of Order to the merit Order, of course, Thanks again!!! By the way I think that Iwas wronged too because the commemorative cross is a second class, the first clas is with enameled center, and there are not third class)

The first time I got the Bar, I become amazed to see this awkward ordenation, because, I was thinking, never a LS&GC cross can be in the first place...with others orders in the same bar...But the same don?t show manipulation signs, so I must accept that the owner thinked that this was the correct (or most liked) order of placement. I?d never see in the forums and at ebay or other dealers sites another Bulgarian bar...So...I liked so much this. The only possibility with this ribbons is that a Military Merit order could be in the first place???

Any information or new source you can show me on the matter will be welcome!!

Thanks Again!!

Miguel

Hello!!

Do you speak of the red Banner of labour???. I have one , but m?sing some red ename of the flag. I?ll post pic this night

Miguel