hipnos

Another New added group to my collection...A somewhat strange combo...I´m awaiting your wellcome comments...

Thakns!!

Miguel

more pics...for rick.

PS/ Honor cross has RV90 Pforzeim

What do you think??, some misgivings??...I´ve some former bad experiences...

Thanks

Miguel

Hello,

Can anyone identify this medal for me? I think maybe Finnland? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Alan

Military merit cross, for merit in War (red enamel), the ceown is the open type 0r imperial, corresponding to Franco´s period (The "closed" one is called royal type). A cross like this, could be awarded from 1937 till late 60...but I tnik that this model, with plain revers...could be a civil war model...for sure if the crown was fixed, due to scarcity of material for the war. the royal type (Pre republican) has a central "ecusson" with the "fleur de Lys" from the Borbon royal house, as in the actuality... (In the republican time, the ecusson was void, (in reconverted types), or totally missing. The crown, too, was the crenellated model called "Mural crown).

I Hope this could be helpful

Miguel

dera meember, and specificaly Rick...I´ve make some research about a RBO assuming the seller listed number as 203253?, but Now when I´ve revised the medasl I´ve some doubts about if the third number is a "9" or a "3", can you give me some help...?

Thanks

miguel

So, This one is for a NCO (2 times awarded MVC??)

Thanks

Miguel

Hi Hippnos,

With the BMVO4bX, this bar belonged to one officer. If we speak about BMVM, it concern NCO.

More medals is enameled, more the chance is for officer.

Your medal is for officer der Reseve (see the medal service for reserve officer).

It's a very nice Bavarian medal bar.

It can be tracable. There is so many officer (Leutnant and Oberleutnant) who potentially received this medal that he can't be tracable.

Christophe

Thanks Christophe... ;)

With a MMO w/s Can we know for sure that is a Officer?s bar?? (LS&GC 2nd class??). Could be traceable??

Thanks to all beforehand...

Regards

Miguel

Hi Miguel, if the price was reasonable for the 2 pieces..... now you get the fun of finding the cross to match the document!

Yes, Stogie...I?ve already one!!!!

regards

Miguel

Keep in mind, that: 1. What they tell you, is not always the pure truth 2. Award documents alone and orders alone are very often seen. And the market is where they join each other... Unless there are numbers on the document and the award /and assuming the numbers are not forged/, it is tough to say whether the grouping really belongs together.

Yes, I know. But I?m consider that sometimes, the prices are not so high as to make any kind of forgery/lie ...neccesary...

Thanks to all

Miguel

This order mentioned in this document.....

The seller send me a soldier?s Bravery cross 4th. class...(But the paers say that is an Order (4th clas 2nd type)???

Thanks

Miguel

Miguel-- Bulgaria switched sides in 1944, so this was most likley an award of the 1944/45 period, delayed processing until 1946.

He looks terrible for 32!

If you read the document?s date, you understand that he don?t looks too bad for....56!!!

Regards

Miguel

Here it is:

Left side:

Vasiv Marinov Toshev

from Sofia

born 16 12 1914

Tall, brown eyes, grizzled hair, nose correct shape

signed....

Right side:

Ministry of Peoples Defense

PRIVATE CARD

for awarded people

number....

The military command of district Sofia certifies that Vasil Toshev is awarded with Military Order for Bravery IV grade 2nd class

Order number 32 /I mean written order, this time not in the meaning of the award, but in the meaning of paper/ from 25 April 1946

17 Dec 1970

Commander of the Sofia military district, General Lt. Rusev

Thanks a lot. So the time of the award?s concession is not on the paper??

It seems a card for discount in the public services due to be awarded...in the Central Powers side????

Thanks, again

Miguel

I came across this doc. I don?t know the meaning but it comes with a cross (Soldiers bravery cross) that not match the doc...(for the dates I can read)

Thanks beforehand

Miguel

Gents,

Rick is correct. Erroneous multiple awards of the same class of the Order of Glory were not uncommon. Archival research will verify/refute this particular case.

Regards,

slava1stclass

this is a group offered in www.ebay.de (Ruhmesorden)...I?m feeling curious about this one...

Thanks

regards

Miguel

the reverse...

I?ve never stop to ask if this is possible. 2 same class slavas in the same group...probably this is a basic answer but I, humbly, must to ask for you knowledge on the matter...

Thanks

Miguel

It always pays to save The Big Guy.

It also obviously doesn't pay to offer surrender terms nicely.

Do you mean for the german officer in volved in the affair...???

Gral. Gorbachev

AWARD CARD

Order booklet № 675317

1. Last Name Gorbachev

2. Name and Patronymic Alexander Ivanovich

3. Military Rank Guards Senior Sergeant

4. Sex Male

5. Year of Birth 1925

6. Place of Birth Novosibirsk Region, City Tomsk

7. Party Membership n/a

8. Education Secondary

9. Nationality Russian

10. In the Red Army since 1.1941 till 3.1946

11. Place of service (name of the unit) and duty position at time of awarding 252nd Rifle Division, 23rd Rifle Corps, 4th Guards Army ? Assistant to the Commander of the Commandant's Platoon

12. Place of service and duty position at current time: Student

13. Home address of the awardee: Kabardinsk Autonomous SSR, City Nal?chik, Zachischie, Educational Institute?s Dorm

14. Record of all awards presented:

Name of Orders, Medals Serial Number Numbers of Documents Awarder

Red Star 1186058 Temp.Cert.

E ? 012433 Order of the 252nd Rifle Division № 013/N of 4.2.45

Red Banner 203253 Temp.Cert.

E ? 012434 Order of the 4th Guards Army № 043/N of 23.2.45

? For Bravery? 2290898 Temp.Cert.

E ? 902838 Order of the 252nd Rifle Division № 053/N of 2.6.45

Signature of the awardee (signed) Gorbachev

Correctness of the data and signature of awardee attested by:

Military Commissar of the Kabardin ASSR

Lieutenant Colonel (signed)

4 September 1946 / Glushkov /

3st UKRAINIAN FRONT Secret

O R D E R Copy № 2

of the Troops of the 4th Guards Army

23 February 1945 № 043/N Frontline Army

In name of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR for exemplary performance of the commanded battle operations on the front in the battle with the German Invader and for the bravery and courage manifested in these I A W A R D :

ORDER of the RED BANNER

2. Senior GORBACHEV Alexander Section Commander of the

Sergeant Ivanovich Commandant's Platoon of the

Headquarters 252nd Kharkow Red

Banner, Order of Suvorov and Bogdan Khmelnitsky Rifle Division

Commander of Armies? Troops

Guards General of the Army (Signed) / Zaharov /

Member of the Military Army Council

Guards Colonel (Signed) / D. Shepilov /

Headquarters? Chief of the Army

Guards General Major (Signed) / K.Derevyanko /

AWARD LIST

1. Last name, name and patronymic Gorbachev Alexander Ivanovich

2. Rank Senior Sergeant

3. Position, unit Section Commander of the Commandant's Platoon of the Headquarters, 252nd Kharkow Red Banner, Order of Suvorov and Bogdan Khmelnitsky Rifle Division

Is recommended for the Order of the ? Red Banner ?

4. Year of birth 1925

5. Nationality Russian

6. Party membership n/a

7. Participation in the civil war and other military actions aimed at the defense of the USSR (where and when) Participated in the Patriotic War since June 1941 till September 44 ? Black Sea Military Navy Fleet; since December 1944 - 3rd Ukrainian Front

8. Wounds or contusions received during the Patriotic War Wounded 29.01.42 and 15.08.44

9. In the Red Army since 1940

10. Drafted by what district military commissariat Yeysk Military District Commissariat, Krasnodar Province

11. Previous awards Medal ?Defence of Sevastopol?

12. Permanent home address (of the prospective awardee or his/her family) Stalingrad Region Uryunino, Sport Square House № 10. Mother: Gorbacheva Apfia Makarovna

Brief description of personal feat

On 18.01.1945 the enemy, broke through our defense line with his large tank and infantry forces and leaked in with several tanks directly to the Commander of the Division?s Observation Point. One of the enemy tanks together with tank desant troops, approached closely the place where the Division Commander, General Major Comrade Gorbachev resided. After noticing the Russian General, the commander of that tank opened the hatch and ordered the General to approach them and surrender. In that same moment, the sub-machine gunner Gorbachev A.I., having seen that the General was in risk of capture, opened fire on the enemy?s tank desant troops and killed the enemy officer who wanted to capture the General, giving the opportunity to the General, his officers and soldiers to retreat to the new location of the Observation Point. Thanks to the time advantage that he acquired, Gorbachev continued to cover firing on another tank with tank desant troops, killed another enemy officer and then, bravely shooting, arrived to the new location of the Division Commander. For the altruistic bravery and extraordinary courage manifested in the life-saving act of General Major Comrade Gorbachev, Gorbachev A.I. deserves the governmental award ?Order of the Red Banner?.

Headquarters? Chief of the 252nd Kharkow Red Banner, Order of Suvorov and Bogdan Khmelnitsky Rifle Division

Colonel (Signature) /Frolov/

29 January 1945

I present to the order of the ? Red Banner ?.

Commander of the 252nd Kharkow Red Banner Order of Suvorov and Bogdan Khmelnitsky Rifle Division

General Major (Signed) / Gorbachev /

29 January 1945

Awarded with the Order of the Red Banner. Order of the 4th Guards Army № 043/N of 23.2.45

Assistant to the Chief of the 2nd Section of the Rifle Corps

Guards Captain (signed) / Zh. Gulev /

Gorbachev___Translation_Photo.doc

Nagorov, Pavel Dmitrievich, Guards Corporal, Gunner ? Heavy Machineguner, 34 Guards Volnyarskii Red Banner Order of Surovov Order of Bogdan Khmelnitskii Motorized Rifle Brigade, 3 Motorized Rifle Battalion

RSO SN: 2.171.986 decret 125167 34?Brig. 6/07/1945

Orlov, Petr Yakovlevich, Guards Private, Rifleman ? 1 Battalion, Brest 110 Rifle Regiment, 38 Guards rifle div.

Slava 3cl.: SN:341.651 38 Guards Rifle Division, Order #77/N dated 2.10.44

Tverdokhlev , Aleksei Pavlovich, Guards Senior Sergeant, Section leader in 193rd Guards Rifles Regiment of 90th Guards Rifles Division

Red Star nr.743,099 on 10.07.44

Slava 3cl. SN. 257,682 on 25.8.44 both from 90th Guards Rifles Division

Slava 2cl. SN. 20700 on 24.9.44 by decree of 4th Shock Army

Mikhail Pavlovich Kostyrko, Lieutenant Colonel commanding the 15th Independent Railways Reconstruction battalion (When the RBO 181.682 was given)

AWARDS:

1 / Combat (Milit?) Merit N?S: 173.561 20/11/1940

2/ RSO N?S: 147975 10/05/1943

3 / OPW 2?cl. N?S.: 52.093 08/12/1943

4 / another Military Merit N?S.:1.558.941 03/11/1944

5 / OPW 1?cl. N?S: 105.347 04/12/1944

6 / RBO N?S: 181.682 28/01/1945

7 / Another RSO N?S.: 2.762.657 06/11/1947

8 / Another RBO N?S.: 392.494 21/08/1953

SALAT, Trofim Ivanovich, Major of Administrative Service. Operational-Instruction Unit Military Warehouse 309, 2nd. VA ?)

1/ Military Merit Medal SN: 1,537,431 on 7.10.1944 by decree of 2nd VA

2/ O. Red Banner SN: 201,997 for long service on 3.11.44

3/ OPW 2cl. SN: 531,698 on 15.6.1945 by decree of 2nd VA?

4/ Medal XX Jubilee of the Red Army SN 19,407 by decree 22.2.1938

Denisov, Mikhail Mikhajlovich . Guards Senior Lieutenant, 6th Guards Airborne Division. Battalion?s Vice Commander of Infantry Unit

RSO, SN: 32168 Order of the Troops, Crimean Front № 0567 of 29.4.1942

RSO, SN: 2558268 Order of the 6th Guards Airborne Division № 03/N of 9.2.1944

Derbenev, Fedor Evlampievich, Red Army Man. Rifleman, 3rd Rifle Battalion, 1277th Rifle Regiment, 389th Berdichev Red Banner Rifle Division

For Bravery medal. SN: 1266055 Order of the 1277th Rifle Regiment № 027 of 2.6.1944

Glory 3rd Cl. SN: 194438 Order of the 389th Rifle Division № 098/N of 19.10.1944

Gorbachev, Alexander Ivanovich. Guards Senior Sergeant. 252nd Rifle Division, 23rd Rifle Corps, 4th Guards Army ? Assistant to the Commander of the Commandant's Platoon

REO SN: 1186058 Order of the 252nd Rifle Division № 013/N of 4.2.45

RBO SN: 203253 Order of the 4th Guards Army № 043/N of 23.2.45

? For Bravery? medal. SN: 2290898 Order of the 252nd Rifle Division № 053/N of 2.6.45

Tarasov, Dmitriy Akimovich. Guards Senior Sergeant. 10th Guards Ural, L?vov Volunteer Tank Corps ? Senior Clerk of the Machinery Unit

Combat Service Med.. SN: 992872 Order of the 29th Guards Tank Brigade № 013/N of 02.05.44

RSO. SN: 1530133 Order of the 10th Guards Tank Corps № 061/N of 25.5.45

Papu, Kharlampij Antonovich. Sergeant. 128th Army Mortar Regiment ? Chief of the Machine-workshop.

Combat Service med.. SN: 717127 Order of the Comm. of the 128th Mortar Reg. 013/N of 18.10.1943

REO SM: 2503042 Order of the Artillery Commander of the 13th Army № 13/N of 12.3.45

Padalka, Andrej Tikhonovich.. 369th Rifle Regiment, 212 Rifle Division ? Sapper

Glory 3rd Class SN: 702391 Order of the 212th Rifle Division № 75/N of 3.11.44

Combar service med. S/N Order of the 369th Rifle Regiment № 032/N of 29.07.44

Postoenko, Vladimir Afanas?evich. Private . Sapper, 120th Separate Guards Sapper Battalion

OG 3cl.. SN: 406828 Orden 081-N del 6?Guards tank Corps on 19.5.45

FANTASTIC ! Thanks Eric ?so I guess it would be safe to say this is one of the earlier produced examples.

Have any of you seen any of these Orders sell at Auction ? I?d like to give him an idea as to its value

It?s an old and beautiful specimen of the Potuguese "Orden de Villaviciosa", Souza is a well know Lisbon jeweler (Tha name of the street means "Golden street" (Rua Aurea, probably because a lot of jewelers have his shops/workshops there...

The price will be in the 400 - 500 - till 700 USD. The breast badges (Knight and officer) are in the 150-200 USD ranges...It depend of the moment and the market rules as you already knows...(I would, probably, spend 400 USD if the medal come to me without much haggling)

Regards

PS/ Check emedals and liverpool medals...

Here is a photo of one (with a crown) in 4th place on the medal bar here:

There is NO possibility of a Red Eagle Order being worn on that ribbon. So in addition to be broken or completely unsewn so the awards are falling off that poor old bar, some dummy has screwed around with the wreckage trying to pump up the price with something that doesn't belong there.

Please remember: a medal bar should be perfect AND beautiful.

Thanks rick. great work with the "Impossible bar" before...really great...Master!!! :jumping: :cheers: :cheers:

hello, I suppose VM5 is the Virtuti Military 5th class...K means "krzyz", or cross. O KW is for Krzyz Walecznych, or Braves Cross; KZ means Krzyz Zaslugi, or Merit Cross (very common) in gold (zloti) and silver (srebnim). Gold and silver words are relly close to russian and yugoslav orthograph.

Thanks a lot. That?s confirm my toughts.

regards

miguel

Antonio,

Thank you for your help. Are these medals and badges considered scarce or valuable by collectors?

Garth

Well... we can consider them not frequent to see...(perhaps is for they are from the Franco regime and , must be cahnged after 1975 for the "Contitutional" one.

They are valuable, and the manufacture is very ggo.

Greetings

miguel