hipnos

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1235247670.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1235247730.jpg

As Is has been already discused before, I?ve just receive the bar that is keep under suspicion...be a frankenstein or not, the rettungsmedaille aus gefahr 1938-45, has some marks on the rim and I want to know if Rick, or any of you, can help me on this matter: The markings are.: (835 PR.M. BLN ...

I send some close-ups of the rim...

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1235071926.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1235071934.jpg

Please help me to understand this (see at eBay...) german (Bavarian) bar....

Thanks

Miguel

Here you have the traduction:

AWARD CARD

Last Name Postoenko

First Name Vladimir

Patronymic Afanas?evich

Rank Private

Position, Unit Sapper, 120th Separate Guards Sapper Battalion

Awarded:

Which order or medal awarded Date of the Edict of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR For what awarded

ORDER of Glory 3rd CLASS 081-N

19.5.45

6th Guards Tank Corps For the Fight against the German Invaders

Home Address

PERSONAL DATA

1. Year of birth 1912

2. Place of birth

3. Party affiliation and qualification n/a

4. Nationality Ukrainian

5. Qualification in the Soviet Army

6. Awarding material located in the file №

Awards Issued:

Order/Medal Date of Issue Place of Issue № Order/Medal № Order Document Notes

Glory 3rd

406828 19.6.45 Temp. Cert.

Ж - 053721

Other notes

AWARD LIST

1. Last Name, name and patronymic Postoenko Vladimir Afanas?evich

2. Rank Red Army Man

3. Position, unit Sapper, 120th Separate Guards Peremyshl? Order of the Red Star Sapper Battalion

Is recommended for the Government Award Order of Glory 3rd Class

4. Year of birth 1912

5. Nationality Ukrainian

6. Party membership n/a

7. Participation in the civil war and other military actions aimed at the defense of the USSR (where and when) Participant in the Patriotic War since September 1943

8. Wounds or contusions received during the Patriotic War One Wound in 1943

9. In the Red Army since September 1943

10. Drafted by what district military commissariat Berezansk Military District Commissariat, Kiev Region

11. Previous awards Was not awarded

12. Permanent home address (of the prospective awardee or his/her family) Kiev Region, Berezansk District, Village Usovka. Wife: Postoenko Galina Andreevna

I. Brief description of personal feat or merits

On 24.04.45, Guards Red Army Man Postoenko Vladimir Afanasievich, was part of a group to blast the barricade on one of the Berlin streets in the district Schmargendorf; despite the strong firing from the enemy?s machine guns and panzerfausts he made his way to the barricade to deliver the last mine and explosives for the explosion (Barricade?s destruction). Trying to prevent the blast of the barricade, German submachine gunners launched a strong attack against the demolisher sappers. During the repulsion of the attack, Guards Red Army Man Postoenko Vladimir Afanasievich acted firmly and fearlessly. With simultaneous submachine gun fire the group of sappers and Guards Red Army Man Postenko repulsed the attack, blasted the barricade and freed the way for the tanks.

On 30.04.45, during a reconnaissance in the cemetery in the region of Wilmersdorf, the enemy attempted to separate the group of sappers from the central division launching an attack from the left flank. While repulsing the attack of the enemy Postoenko acted bravely and resolutely thus contributing to the nullification of the enemy?s plans.

For the courage and bravery manifested during the fulfillment of the commanded missions, Guards Red Army Man Postoenko Vladimir Afanasievich deserves the Government award order of the Glory of the 3rd class.

Commander of the 120th Separate Guards Peremyshl? Sapper Battalion

Guards Captain (signed) / Osnag /

6 May 1945

I AWARD the order of Glory 3rd Class

Commander of the 6th Guards Kiev Red Banner, Order of Suvorov and Bogdan Khmel?nitsky Tank Corps

Guards General Major of Tank Troops (signed) / Mitrofanov /

15 May 1945

1st UKRAINIAN FRONT Secret

O R D E R Copy №

6th GUARDS KIEV, RED BANNER, ORDER of SUVOROV and

BOGDAN KHMEL?NITSKY TANK CORPS

/ regarding the awarding of personnel staff /

19 May 1945 № 081/N Front-line Forces

In name of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR for exemplary performance of the commanded battle operations on the front in the battle with the German invader and for the bravery and courage manifested in these I AWARD:

ORDER of GLORY 3rd Class

26. Red Army Man POSTOENKO Sapper of the 120th Separate Guards

Vladimir Afanas?evich Peremyshl? Order of the Red Star Sapper Battalion

Commander of the Guards Kiev, Red Banner and Order of Suvorov and Bogdan Khmel?nitsky Tank Corps

Guards General Major of Tank Troops (signed) / Mitrofanov /

Chief of the Headquarters of the Corps

Guards Colonel (signed) / Lebedev /

Postoenko_Translation.doc

Of course you will also not be getting an item that is "as described"..... after all, going by the pics it looks like you have bid and won a nice 1957 version WW2 medal bar... but if you are about to recieve some nasty Nazi medal bar that will deeply offend you... refund in order.

C

Thanks to all. I?ve receive an email from the seller that pested the forum members...(I?d not at all named the GMIC)...specially rick...and others, saying that they (the slelers) are resented the long arm of the law was not so lenght enought ...to got them... They looked very angry...indeed :speechless1:

Here you have the traduction of the reprobed leutenant

For 11 Years and 2 Months of Service in the Forces, MVD, and Police

Award Sheet

1. Last name, name, and patrionymic: Volokitin, Grigorii Nikiforovich

2. Rank: Senior Lieutenant

3. Duty position and place of service: Garrison Chief ? 4 Type, 2 Battalion, 62 Regiment, MVD Forces for Guarding Special Industrial and Railroad Sites [trans: 336 Budapest Order of Alexander Nevsky crossed out, probably due to a unit redesignation]

4. Duty description according to MVD Order 0310 dated 1946: Officer Duty, Position #84

Award Application for the Combat Service Medal

5. Birthyear: 1920

6. Nationality: Ukrainian

7. Party membership: n/a

8. Place of birth: Shubino village, Ostrogozhskii Region, Voronezh Oblast

9. Combat experience: participant of the Great Patriotic War in the 23 MVD Division, was attached to the 117 Rifle Regiment, 47 Rifle Division, Kalinin Front 4.1942-9.1942, 253 Regiment, 53 Division, Leningrad Front 8.1943-10.43

10. Wounds or shell-shock: Two light wounds in the right arm and leg and one incident of shell-shock, all in the Great Patriotic War

11. Service in the VChK, OGPU, NKVD, NKGB, MVD: since 1 July 1940, no service in the Armed Forces

12. Earlier decorations: Red Star by Order 01147/11 of the Leningrad Front dated 22.7.45, Defense of Leningrad Medal, Victory over Germany Medal, and 30th Anniversary of the Soviet Armed Forces Medal

13. Home of record: Korolevo village, Sevlyushskii Okrug, Zakarpate Oblast

He is dedicated to the Party of Lenin-Stalin and the Socialist Motherland. He is morally stalwart, however while on the garrison during duty he has been intoxicated. He is ideologically sound. He is politically developed. He is insufficiently self-disciplined. He is not very demanding of himself or his subordinates. He is not seriously engaged with his assigned duties. The garrison is sufficiently trained. Military discipline and order in the garrison is not at its required levels. His garrison accomplished the 1, 2, and 3 range firing tables with excellent results. He is concerned about his subordinates. He does not command sufficient authority within the unit. In 1948 he was expelled from the Party. His performance corresponds to his assigned duty as Chief of Garrison, 2 Battalion. Until the specified deficiencies have been corrected, his awarding for long service should be denied.

Signed 20 July 1950, Colonel Ignatev

Endorsed ? Awarding for long service withheld until correction of noted deficiencies in service and personal behavior.

Signed Commander, 32 Division, Colonel Lipetskii on 4 August 1950

Dates Time Duty Position Unit Location

1.7.40-1.9.40 2 mos Private 234 Regt, Convoy Troops, NKVD Novosibirsk

1.9.40-1.3.41 6 mos Cadet 1 Moscow Commander School Moscow

1.3.41-1.5.41 2 mos Deputy Platoon Leader 234 Regt, Convoy Troops, NKVD Novosibirsk

1.5.41-1.12.41 7 mos Cadet Saratov Border Academy NKVD Saratov

1.12.41-1.4.42 4 mos Chief of Garrison 51 Regt, Railroad Forces, NKVD Leningrad

1.4.42-31.5.42 1yr, 29d In reserves 23 Div, Railroad Forces, NKVD Leningrad

31.5.42-19.12.42 6mos MG Platoon Leader 32 Independent Reserve Battalion Bodogoe

19 days Railroad Forces, NKVD Station

19.12.42-15.6.43 5mos MG Platoon Leader 52 Regt, Railroad Forces, NKVD Volkhov

26 days

15.6.43-17.3.45 1yr, MG Platoon Leader Division Commanders School Leningrad

9mos, 2 days 23 Division

17.3.45-4.5.45 1mo, 17dMG Platoon Leader 210 Regt, Railroad Forces, NKVD Leningrad

4.5.45-13.8.46 1yr,3mo Deputy Battalion 51 Regt, Railroad Forces, NKVD Leningrad

9 days Chief of Staff

13.8.46-21.1.47 5mo,8d Deputy Regimental 336 Budapest Order of Alexander Nevsky Mukachevo

Chemical Officer Regt, 32 Division MVD Forces for Guarding Special Industrial and Railroad Sites, MVD

21.1.47-13.8.48 1yr6mo Chief Chemical Officer Same Same

13.8.48-25.3.49 7m,12d Chief of Garrison Same Same

25.3.49-1.7.49 3m,6d Chief of Reserve Garrison Same

1.7.49-9.1.50 1y,6m,8d Chief of Garrison Same Same

9.1.51-1.9.51 7m,22d Chief of (?) 62 Regt, 52 Division, MVD Lvov

Information compiled and verified on the basis of personnel file.

Signed Chief Personnel Officer, 32 Division, MVD Forces, Lieutenant Colonel Korolev on 2 August 1950

sorry for the format.

regards

Miguel

This is the very first time I have seen DOCUMENTATION of a routine long service award being WITHHELD for bad behaviour and poor performance. As you already notte-- his 10 years MMM was rejected and held back for a year as punishment.

I have also never seen service records for the "police" services before.

These are all very clear and will be easy to work through, but I've just had an unexpected situation come up that means I can't get to this today.

I?ll be very pleased to send you (at your personal email adress - or postal if you prefer) full size scans of the doc...

Regards

Miguel

Deleted

deleted

The 2nd reverse half...

Thnaks to all

Miguel

The first reverse half

2nd. half. Where you can see tht the Tovarich was not a special recommended guy, being hardrinking and making a shabby work at the Garrison...I thnk they don?t want to give him the Military merit....

Sorry Rick, You will be the first to get a better copy as soon as the parcel came home.

Thanks as ever

Yours

Miguel

As Promised to Rick...1st half

Maybe if I had a lunar telescope....

Sorry Rick, You will be the first to get a better copy as soon as the parcel came home.

Thanks as ever

Yours

Miguel

Name looks like Volokitin Grigorij Nikiforovich, Chief of the ... of a battalion of the Budapest (?) Order of Aleksander Nevskj Regiment of the MVD troops.. And yes, a Senior Lieutenant

It is pretty small

The doc looks authentic but there is no way to prove it belongs to the awards (unless of course, researching).. anyway thats a pretty sad example of how to create a "I researched my order but found nothing"

The whole thing is on the way home...

So don?t worry , we?ll made a research as/if neccesary...

Thanks

miguel

This is the pic. The quality is very low , but I would to know the unit (Fusilier'??), grade (Starschina leutnenant??), and some hint about the feat... I understand they ask the Military merit and that he has already a red star order, victory over germany and defense of leningrad, medals, (an a veteran one I think.. )

Sorry Rick, for the hard work to your eye...

Regards and thanks

miguel

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1234107873.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1234107888.jpg

What do you think about??

Miguel

Maybe it is a wartime version of the pre-Awards Record Card. Post whatever you've got. The inconsistencies on Soviet paperwork could have kept Gotcha "Organs" going for another century. There are often small additions in details from one to another-- even if they often contradict other entries!

What do you know about the date of ths MM. SN??? . It seems correct to you?

Thanks

miguel

From what I see, the Order of Glory 774.664 looks okay in my oppinion.

For the Order of Glory 2 class better pictures are needed with the clock tower.

regards

Andreas

Thanks!!!

Miguel

I have to admit that the fakes are getting better! I would have been mislead by some of these! YIKES!!

And what do you think about this one...The rear is looking better??

Thanks

Miguel (The ever confused)

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1233859308.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1233859272.jpg

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1233859281.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1233859296.jpg

This one is a III class, but is near mint and I don?t know if the numbers (by rotaing tool) are correspondent with the SN...And is very cheap!!!

What do you think about

Miguel

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1233858453.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-4281-1233858465.jpg

I?ve see this Slava II class, that has somethings that make me have some doubts. The Almost total impossibility to read the number in the pic is one of them...

Please I want to know your opinion (I know tht the pictures are nor good enough..but...)

Thanks

Miguel

I reported the bar to eBay. Not as it is in my humble opinon faked (they do NOT care...), but as it is "nazi stuff" that IS banned on German and Austrian eBay, even if you are "photoshoping" the images... if they get that (I hope they do) the auction will be deleted, and Miguel will get an e-mail that the contract of sale does not exist any more... problem solved, money saved.

That far in theory.

Thnaks for your time wasted. I?ll cross my fingers...

Miguel

A very interesting discussion.

Over the past 6 months a significant number of common bars (e.g. EK2/BMVK3x/HKx: EK2/HKx) are often going for less (@10-20%) than the medals might go for individually, which shows a lack of market interest .

thanks for every of you!

Miguel

My friend Fran?ois Saez has what is probably the best way of putting things tactfully--

"Not for my collection."

And I agree with this.

I?m afraid the transfer can?t be undone...all this come from a hurry...the auction was ended in minutes...so...I?m guity of greedy. I?m feeling somewhat chastised...

Well, Never to happen again

Thanks

Miguel

PS/ Is the medals setting or the seller fame that make you know the wrong thing in a moment...?

What I forgot to mention: please, don't send "him" any link to this forum nor tell him about us. His lawyer does not like us. Law isn't always justice...

Yes, of course.

Why,exactly, make you knows that the bar is a fake...what kind of medals set???

Thanks

I could learn something at last....

Miguel