Mike

Leningrad refurbs has been tossed around, but such is hard to substantiate. It is certainly plausible... As far as rarity goes, what might seem likely is probably not the case. These relined helmets are fairly common on the market. I'd say 40-50% of the ones I come across are of this variety. I know that one large cache of these did come from sources in the Baltic in 2001-2002 (which also adds to the Leningrad theory), so for a while they were everywhere. Same for the Ssh-39s of this type as well.

Mike B.

Thanks Mike ..That cache had to be what started the Leningrad Theory. I'm not sure why they are guessing about them since , I would have thought that by now some ref would have surfaced showing if they were really refurbishing Helmets during the siege. They still had Factories producing Machineguns and many other items so ..it does make sense.

These are still great Helmets even if they can't claim the extra added History ...would be nice to find out someday though.

Thanks for that ..glad to be here.

Another Collector told me that these 36's ( the one I have) were refurbished in Leningrad during the siege ..he could tell because of the "designer" fabric used in the liner and the liner being replaced ..he said that rebuilding them was standard practice because of shortages.

I don't have any books on Soviet Helmets so I could look into that story a little deeper ...have any of you heard of this being done during the siege ? If that's true , and this is a "Leningrad " Helmet..I'd think this would be a much harder Style to find than a regular M36.

You're 100% right ...it's too bad that many people (incl some Collectors) watch the movie and get the wrong idea ....then when they see one of these original Canvas Ruperts , they think it's a fake because that's not what it looked like in the Movie !

I'm glad you guys liked seeing him ...I was also amazed at how simple he was compared to the high detailed versions the Movie studios made ..but it wouldn't make sense to make them with all the details during the War , so why bother? They'll be seen from a distance and did the job just fine.

It was a "Canvas Bag" full of History that I just couldn't pass up

Have any of you seen any others for sale ? ..wonder what they are going for these days

Are they more readily available in the UK ? I've been looking off and on for years over here and ...they don't seem to turn up that often.

There's an extra flap sewn in near each end so once you fill his Arms and Legs with sand , you turn down the flap and then tie the rope ..the flap holds the sand in place

Hi Guys ?Because of work I have not been around or had time to post but , I?m back for a bit. Over the past few weeks a few new things came my way ?nothing as nice as some of the SOS Show bring backs I?ve been seeing and hearing about though. I wish I could have gone ..maybe next year.

Anyway , luckily even when we don?t actively search for stuff ..things do have a way of showing up.

I never really thought I'd find one BUT , GOT HIM !! He's in great condition with the original chute still packed up.

Here's some info about "Rupert" (for those who've never met him)--

The British carried out the most famous of all paradummy missions during the early hours of D-Day June 5/6th, 1944. The paradummy operation was code-named "Titanic" and involved dropping hundreds of paradummies along the French coast to confuse and deceive the Germans as to where the actual Allied Airborne drops would occur.

Six brave SAS men jumped along with the paradummies to make a lot of noise on the ground, play combat recordings, make small attacks on German troops (like couriers) and generally help make the landings appear real to the Germans. The SAS men were Lt. Fowles, TPR. Hurst, TPR. Merryweather, Lt. Poole, TPR. Dawson, and TPR. Saunders. Days after the operation only two of these six men had returned to friendly lines. The other five were likely killed or captured but it is possible some survived so this web site is still trying to research their exact fate. Titanic is surely one of the best kept secrets of WWII involving sheer bravery amongst Allied Special Operations soldiers, out there on their own behind enemy lines.

The Titanic operation worked well and actually caused a good number of German troops to spread out away from the real landing areas, and also caused much confusion and doubt amongst German commanders who were then completely unsure if there was in fact an attack happening or not. Titanic is credited with surely reducing many Allied casualties as a result.

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION:

There are many surviving examples of original British D-Day paradummies so physical details are available. These dummies, which have come to be known as "Ruperts" (as opposed to the American "Oscars") were made of simple stuffed burlap sack cloth. They were filled with sand, straw, or wood shavings and were attached to small scale sized parachutes. They were small, only about 3 feet tall, and could be dressed in actual small uniforms.

A few original D-Day Ruperts, which were actually dropped during Operation Titanic, can be found these days in war museums in the U.S. and in Europe and in the hands of a few lucky private collectors. There was also several left over vintage crates of these paradummies found in storage at an old English airfield in the 1980's. These unissued, mint condition original Rupert paradummies, are often found at collector's shows and auction web sites. They are originals from the era, but were never actually dropped during the war.

http://home.att.net/~1.elliott/paratrooper...istorysite.html

Thanks for that Kjell , this sounds like it?s a much more interesting Rifle than I first thought ! ?I?m really glad I found it .

Sorry about my delay in answering your post , I?ve been more or less ?off-line? since I Emailed you so many weeks ago ?work has kept me away from collecting (hate when that happens)

Do you know where these were issued ? I wonder if these were used by rear Echelon Troops or Police ?Since there were not that many made, they must be very hard to find. I?d love to be able to put the correct Stock back on it and "restore" it, thanks for helping me with this Kjell.

Can anyone identify this, is it real? I not sure of its origin, so I thought I would start with the political section as it does not appear to be military. This is the only picture I have.

Regards;

Johnsy

Hi Johnsy ...It's a Fantasy Badge ..no such item was ever made by the TR.

I'd also be very interested in any pictures you could find ..thanks Gordon. My armband was bought from a family in Budapest about 9 or 10 years ago ...made its way to Canada and then I bought it. I've never seen another example anywhere , except in that fuzzy Bender Picture.

If they were faking them ...we'd have seen them flooding the market by now and "Schnyders Treasures" would have had them for sure . It doesn't look like a mass produced or a one piece silk-screened item . This is multi piece stitched and took some time to make.

I'd imagine that they're pretty rare because I'm sure that when the Soviets arrived , anyone who had one quickly burned or buried it ...so who knows how many are still around.

The Crown made me wonder as well. But I remembered that the picture I saw showed Civilians wearing these Armbands , not in Uniform..just Street Clothes ...could they have been trying to imply that another Government entity was responsible for the Death Squads ..in a way distancing the Arrow Cross from the brutality ? Or , at that point ...was the Crown a more respected symbol of authority than the Arrow Cross symbol ...and one not to be questioned ? Could these Armbands have been produced before 1944 by Horthy for another use and just adopted by the Death Squads since they were already available ? One thing is for sure ..the Arrow Cross didn't stop using the Crown as soon as they took over.

Maybe your visit will turn up a few answers ...maybe you'll find one on display there

I remember seeing the full picture ..someplace ...I'll snoop around for it.

Anyway ...According to the same book (page 101) The Hungarians considered the Swastika a "Foreign Importation"... and adopted the Sun Wheel version (almost closed).

St. Stephens Crown however was always considered to be a symbol of Hungary ..

Here's a picture from page 105 of Benders "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich" Vol 3 ..it shows a close up of it being worn on Civilian Clothes ...

Can we get back on topic? This thread is about Knights' Crosses although the flawed S&L KC has really been done to death. What about mint Klein & Quenzer KCs?

PK

I don't think we should change direction here ...as I read it , the Rounder part was ended back in Post #11 ..but keeps poping up like a fog (when needed )

We were and are talking about our beloved S&L's ...let's sort that out first and stay on track

Revisionism...

PK

You tossed that comment on the Table ..now you won't explain it ?

I am not accusing Maerz of anything. I am simply recounting what happened when Hansen tried to express his opinions and publish his research. I daresay that a thread like this would last about five minutes over there too. That is one of the aspects of all of these discussions, the marked tendency to censor or suppress any alternative or dissenting opinions if the individual whose statements are being questioned happens to be "one of the boys". The Chairman of GMIC and his management team have very generously supplied a level playing field, so to speak, for this discussion and all I am seeing from the visiting team, as it were, is obfuscation, claims to the gallery of unfair treatment, implicit accusations and persecution and, occasionally, blatant derailing tactics.

PK

In my Post #103 I pasted your comments so , it's clear ...no smoke here

Ours is a small community ..and anyone who claims to be an expert , is a fool. When any collector feels there's nothing left to learn or allows his Ego take over and feels he's better, has a larger Collection or knows more than other Collectors ..he's no longer a part of our Community.

And Yes , I know Dietrich ...We went through some of the Archives at West Point last Summer ...when the Curator handed him the first case to examine , he opened it and looked at me and said --" If these Awards were in a European Museum , our Collecting Community would never have had access to them like this ...through these High Res Scans , the minute details of these Awards will be shared with Collectors worldwide "

Not exactly what you'd expect a self proclaimed "Authority" to say ...but something you would expect a Historian to say.

We are here to Learn ... and to Collect ..Not to compete

Ah! I was waiting for the derailing tactics. Look, Mike, Dietrich Maerz is not being persecuted in this thread. I am just trying to get him to give straight answers to a couple of quite simple questions. When one sets oneself up as an authority on a subject, one must expect to be questioned.

PK

Also ..I never heard him to proclaim himself as an "Authority"

questioned yes ...but not accused

...I agree with ekhunter. But I'm starting to worry about the "tone" of this debate ...After reading through everything again , it's starting to sound more like it's about Dietrich personally ...is this turning into the "REVENGE of THE ROUNDER" thread ?

Here are a few excerpts from previous posts --

*********************************************************************************

--the stringency with which he treats some of the evidence

--Had Dr Hansen been successfully silenced, I doubt if Maerz's "Rounder" article would have been withdrawn .

--the cat was out of the bag and there was nothing Maerz or his fellow moderators over there could do about it.

--I take no pleasure in this, by the way. I wish you'd just let it drop or, at least, stop peddling it here on this website where people are not banned for disagreeing with you

--I have to say that the criteria you employ in deciding what constitutes proof when composing your theses are, as the record shows, rather lax.

--but he really ought to be careful of some of the people he trusts and he should get his work proof-read and fact-checked before publishing it. --Mr Maerz's reputation as an authority on the subject was based on his revelatory thesis about "Rounder" KCs and KCs bearing the PKA code '7'.**********************************************************************************

The "Rounder" should never have been brought into this Thread and ...why question Dietrich's integrity ? Is there another agenda here ?

I see that the cavalry has turned up. Sorry, gents, but Dietrich is the 'challenger' here. I am not about to reiterate posts ad nauseam on demand. However, I will address his latest post.PK

The "Cavalry" might be here but , I'd be more inclined to compare us to a UN Cav unit -- Just Observers

We simply want to sit back , sip our Tea and learn as both "Schools of Thought" present their case.

As far as Dietrich being the "Challenger" here ...it sounds to me as if it's his work that's being Challenged.

If you're all so convinced that Maerz is right, why keep hammering away at heretics like me? Just tell yourselves that I am mad and ignore me. PK

This thread sat dormant for 3 days after your last post ...you resurrected it now..so obviously , you're not done with it .

You know ...I really do respect you and admire your style ..you have quite a way with words and have an ability that very few can match ..but we are now starting to cloud the facts and change a threads direction. It seems like this is turning into a Fencing Match ...BUT , I don't think that the Collectors reading this want it to turn into a competition or see who "Wins" -It is not a Game to us ..we're simply interested in learning more about the S&L Flaws and the ability to establish a time line based on their progression.

Dietrich posted his findings ...if his findings are to be questioned , you should take the time and write an article documenting (in your opinion but also backed with Photos and facts) why his S&L theory is being questioned point by point ..this way the "Cavalry" can read, compare and decide for itself .

Since Keating is so convinced that the published findings are incorrect I suggest to him to write an article refuting the findings step by step, with pictures and supporting data so everybody can follow his reasoning. This is the normal way in such a case. DM

Many Collectors are reading this thread and ... I think

Dietrich has a great point. Instead of all the facts being clouded by jumping

around between the various Flaws and who held what or knows what ...and

since it's obvious his findings are being questioned here , I for one would like to see

an article written to refute his work on a point by point basis. This is the

only way to settle it.

Point by Point ..no other comments , no back tracking , no excuses ..this subject should be brought to a head now.

I don't think we can properly discuss this and be sure that everyone fully understands it without having magnified pictures of both the Type A & B flaws (in sequence) that we can refer to ....this way one can see the actual progress of these "flaws" .

Here's the 3 o'clock arm of my (micro 800) Type A with no Flaw at all -

Split Bead (is only at 6 o'clock Arm) and other defect (or knee flaw) between 9 and 12 o'clock position on TYPE A

here's the knee Flaw ( they look like dashes between the beading) --

Thanks for posting these pictures Dietrich ..without them , it could get confusing for many when trying to understand the difference between the Flaws and Dent row's . It should also be noted that the Type A (micro 800) Die Flaws can only clearly be seen through a Loup (split bead on 6 o'clock arm and knee flaw between 9 and 12 o'clock ) . Otherwise , someone reading this for the first time will assume that all Flaws can be seen without any magnification.

Here's my Type A (micro 800) without any visible "Flaws" ..

Here's the one I own again for comparison --- It could be an Illusion but , Look at how the word "Kaiser" ramps down ..the "K" is the highest then each letter seems to get smaller ..and both examples have this trait. That's why I think it could be a clone .

Here's mine again --

Here's the back --