Mike

There's a lot of great shots there ..Occupied Greece too

Whoever made this print goofed aaahh-- little bit

Brian ..If you ask him about where it came from , he'll tell you he's selling it for a Veteran's Widow . That's one of his favorite lines. Oh well .....

Or, to be less tactful than Wild C.-- in all my half century of life, I have been in the physical, animal instinct revulsion at the palpable physical presence of evil...

once.

"Charlie" once posted a picture on Ebay of a group of Soldiers in formation outside a Mess Hall ...in his description he said it was Custer's 7th Cav just before the Little Big Horn in 1876 lined up before chow.

The problem was , he never dreamed that someone would recognize where the picture was taken.

It was actually taken at Camp Smith here in NY around 1914 or 15

I Emailed him , told him he was wrong ...but he could care less ..

Ladies & Gentleman . My very large "attaboys" for the wealth of information, cameraderie and encouragement offered up to Mike here today! That's what these "halls" were made for!

You beat me to it Rick ! ---- Thank you all so very much ...I appreciate this Award more now that I know a lot more about it . It will be with me for a long long time now

--Mike

During WWI were awarded 1766 FO 1. Kl. with swords; much less than a knight cross of the iron cross in WWII!

Don't worry mike; you really made a good deal buying it!

Ciao,

Claudio

I won it on Manions last night..here's the "Hammer Price"--

B11

5760456 WܒTTEMBURG FRIEDRICHS ORDER W/SWORDS 3RD CLASS, CASED

$339.00

I figured between the shipping/commision/Office charge ...it will end up being about $400.

Over the years I've heard so many complaints from other collectors about Manions but ..I've never had any problems. If I have any problem with anything ..they take it right back. There are still certain items I would not buy from any Auction House unless I had it in my hand first . And now with a new owner , things are changing for the better. No more Membership charge for one .

By the way Dave ...you've got a really nice site , thanks again

--Mike

"Just to be clear. This is not a neck badge. This is the Knight 1st Class. The Friedrich Order's suspension is a little odd, making it look like a neck badge. "

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Thanks Dave ...I found a picture of one on your site marked as a "Ritterkreuz", and with that suspension so..I just assumed it was a Neck Order.

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Glad you like it Claudio ...so would this be between a $600 to $800 range medal? Maybe less because of the crack? I'd like to start getting a feel for the price ranges of the Imperials

PS, the m.S. is "mit Schwertern"

Thanks ..that's a relief . The auction was closing and I didn't have time to properly research it ..so I had to toss the dice and go with my gut feeling. I paid $400 for it ...just so I can get a scale of 1 to 10 value/rarity ,what are they sellimg for today ?

Honestly ...I never paid any attention to the Imperial Orders / Awards until I came to this Forum SO ..IT's ALL YOUR FAULT, now look what you did ! Instead of bidding on Adolph's Mustache , I ended up with this ...I think the Mustache was RZM'd to boot , oh well

#3

#2

Even though it's completely out of my TR collecting field ...I don't own any Imperial Neck Orders so , I just could not pass it up. It does have a crack in the enamel (on the 3 o'clock arm) . I've tried looking it up in my "Nimmergut" but can't find a picture of it and , the only shot I've found shows a Silver version not Gold. Please let me know what you think

Nice group Darrell ..well worth the search

Nice score ! Thanks for posting that Joe , I've never been lucky enough to run into a TR 1914 screwback before... I wonder if someone will post a TR 1914 EK with both the LDO and PK markings next !

Thanks for explaining that Gordon. Just what I need ...another reason to buy more EK's

My Wife will understand

" But Honey ..see how one has a PK # and the other is the LDO?"

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And thanks Joe ..I'd like to see some of those Crosses

The answer to the numbers issue is quite simple. Serving soldiers who lost /damaged their EKs ( and other awards) "in the line of duty" were entitled to a free replacement through official sources. Unlike awards such as the PLM and other individual State awards of the Imperial period which were now defunct, the Iron Cross, albeit in a new guise was still a valid award, still being issued and being worn by thousands of still serving soldiers.

It is perfectly logical that any such lost/damaged awards would be replaced by pieces supplied on official contract and thus show the PK mark whilst, just like the 1939 version, those sourced privately as "extras" would show the LDO mark.

Thanks Gordon ...I understand now , so the same exact rules applied. That would mean that somewhere out there should be another 1914 "L/18" marked sister Cross to this "26" right ?

Rick is right. Darrell, hold your two crosses side by side. The frames should match. I've seen a few of these and if you notice the "W" always looks wide compared to WWI issues. I always thought it was to fill up the extra space of the core.

I sold an L/54 TR made '14 cross to George Stimson that would bring tears to your eyes. Maybe he will post it.

Hi Jim ...I think Darrell only has one EK pictured here ...the other was posted by Bill. Interesting how the one you sold had the LDO # on it ...not the PK#.

Assuming that these are in the 1939+ sized frames, the reason for the WW2 maker markings on the "1914" pins is because ALL the +1939 frames were made for interchangeable use. So the 1939 size frame parts were stamped out en masse, and if a specific assembly ended up on a 1939 or a replacement 1914, it didn't matter to them--BOTH fit. Why bother deliberately making TWO simultaneous runs of frame parts, marked and unmarked? So without me knowing about the 1939 version, I'd still venture to guess there are unmarked 1939s as well-- simply howver that parts batch came out.

That makes sense to me as well Rick , the more I think about it ..I can't see them making them custom ordered ...I still can't understand why the Praesidialkanzlei allowed them to be marked since the PK #'s were reserved for Official Awarded Medals and the LDO # was for the replacement or "retail" sales awards. I know a few collectors who prefer PK marked over LDO marked for this reason. I thought the PK maintained tight control over regulations. Maybe since it was a WW1 award , it was a grey area to them and overlooked ?

One thing I've always wondered about ..why PKZ numbers were marked on TR produced WW1 replacements. Could Bill's EK be a later production where they stopped PKZ marking them

Not really .... original "26" WW2 (Swastika) mint 26's had that same frosted back

Hi Darrell ...Mayer did pay attention to details ..and the frosted finish on any of their PAB or IAB has that 2 tone effect . I was just never lucky enough to own a mint cond one like yours ..I'm use to seeing examples like the one Bill posted where the mirror finish on the pin has faded to match the back. Could they have made the TR WW1's as a custom or made to order item ? Maybe the didn't keep a large stock on hand as replacements. They were a quality outfit that's for sure

I don't own that many "Low Mileage" crosses ...mine have a few miles on them so I guess I'm not use to that 2 tone pin to back effect. You know ...it's been 2 years since I've played with my EK1's ..time to check them out again huh?

That bright silver finish on the back looks "57"ish to me

Hello Mike

I have some books that deal with Italian medals related to Spanish Civil war but I could not find yours, probably because it was a local award limited to "volunteers" from the city of Pisa.

Best regards

Thanks for that ..The City of Pisa must have spent some Lira on it because it is a nice quality cased medal ..not the typical "souvenir" grade one would expect from a City Gov.

That is a very very very nice and unusual piece sir! I have never seen anything like it! Thanks for posting a bit of its history with the pics also! Jon

Thanks Jon, glad you liked it ..the only picture I've ever found of it was in the Bender series "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich" Vol3.

There was so much going on in Hungary between 44 & 45 but unf, we don't hear that much about it here. And much of the History that has been published ...is wrong. It's a shame.