Mike

#5

#4 -- I've had this since 1968. Back then about 60% of the Gold was still there but , unf ...I was young and decided to wash it. I guess that's why I don't like to look at it that often ..it hurts.

#3 magnetic pin

#2 On this syle, one thing I always looked for the "dots" on the brow of the Skull

Here are a few closeups of my round pin version ..

I know I'll prob get some Flak over this but ..I think it's possible that Zimmermann produced these late War ..We all know that for whatever reason, the same wreath was used by Klien and Zimmerman. Now ..after seeing Robin's Hybrid Deschler/Zimmermann Cross...it looks like it was Zimmermann that was buying the components from other Companies and assembling them as their own. If the "supply" of components Zimmermann was buying dried up (maybe the sub contractor was bombed out or whatever) they'd be finally forced to either start making them in house or ..buy them or have them made elsewhere. This could explain the Starburst and wreath not matching up with earlier #20's. Maybe we should look at the numbers to find out how many Crosses were issued between mid 44 and 1945 ? If this was a late War Cross ..that (to me ) would explain why probably more were "in stock" than documented as issued.

There are many legitimate questions that throw a shadow on this Cross ..including the big one ---why isn't there at least one early ref book that mentions or shows a picture of this variation.

That's a hard one ..However I don't think we'll ever get any answers by going at it tooth and nail with each

other over it .

Has anyone ever really gone over the dotted date wreath to see if there are any flaws (even faint) that match the other style wreath ? I wish I had one to study because I'd like to know . Some Collection out there could have a documented issued example ..I'm sure the answer is out there.

I've never really been that active on any of the Forums so ..I knew nothing about this dotted date issue before a month or so ago.From what I had read over there , I honestly thought that it was a dead issue and had been accepted that they were fake. I had no idea that the debate was still ongoing. We all have to keep an open mind and only through asking these questions and studying the construction, material used..die flaws ...whatever we can find which will help us get the answers. As you mentioned before ..just look at the time and research done by Dietrich on the S&L's ...that dedication paid off. But it wasn't a short road ( and I think he's now cross eyed from it )

U-Boats used exactly the same clocks as surface ships, there was no special version for them. *********************************************

At a local Auction 5 months ago , I passed up on a KM marked 8 day that was similar to this one. It sold for $300.00 ...For some reason I always assumed they used the 24 scale. I can see that my "assuming" (and not knowing for sure) cost me now. Thanks for the info Gordon ..I lost out on that one but , live and learn.

---please don't tell me what it's worth , I don't need salt added to the wound

Hi guys,

Can some of you post wartime photos that show what type of clocks were mounted inside the subs? I am very interested in see the clock in the radio room. I think it is suposed to look like this on?

This one came from the estate of Wilfried Prellberg, Commander of U-19 and U-31.

Regards

Hinrik Steinsson

I'm not really into clocks but If they were submerged , how would they know if it was 2am or 2pm ?I always thought that they used clocks with the 24 hour Military scale ...since they had limited access to sunlight on the Subs . I have only 2 Heer desk clocks but they are the standard style ..

What do these Girls expect ? The other "part" of my collection includes 2 -1944 GPW's (one restored & one not) one M880 . an M886 and an M38A1 Jeep ...I told her I'm looking for a Tank now so ..she leaves the room alone I told her I'll find a cute one that she'll like !!

OMG,what a collection ...very impressive Mike!

Dave

Thanks Dave ..My Wife wants me to collect Postage Stamps because they take up less room !

She puts up with it though

This cased set came with the SA Bf shirt ..since it's not named , I hope someday I'll see or find a picture of the General wearing it and recognize the bar

Kind of quiet in the other forum since Dietrich's analysis huh?

Very nice Cross Mike.

Gee ... I wonder what crow tastes like?

What can they say ? The funny thing is ( and I never mentioned it before but )...Gordon gave it the thumbs up as soon as he saw it , way before that 13 page RK Inquisition got underway. Dietrich was a big help ..there are still a lot of great collectors out there .

The back ---

Here are a few close ups that a good friend of mine took of my S&L RK ..you can tell I'm not much of a photographer ..that's why I "borrowed" his (hope you don't mind Dietrich)

It's dirty and a little worn but ..I like it

Where's George? He's gotta see this

Outstanding Mike

P.S. .. got any Gold DRL w/o Swastikas you want to part with?

Thanks Darrell ..it's kind of a tight fit in that room because of the cases . I only have one early DRL without the swas ..I'm going to a show this weekend so if I find any I'll grab it for you ..what price range?

**************

These are 3 of my favorites ..all taged and named Holters Tunics. The one on the left is General Angern's who commanded the 16th Panzer and was killed in Stalingrad ..the White tunic belonged to GFM Wilhelm List (12th Army that took the Balkans & Greece and Army Group A -Caucasses) and the right Tunic belonged to Gen Alexander Von Hartman who commanded the 71st Inf and was also killed in Stalingrad. All three are named ..I was lucky to find them.

right side of room

Hi Joe ...The trays have a little bit of everthing incl foreign awards. I never really centered on anything ..I kept the collection rather broad spectrum. I'll post a few shots of the overall room as well.

Glad you like it ..it's nice seeing what someone else collects and what's out there.

right side

Here's the rest of the case

Hi Gents , I'm relatively new to this great Forum , I'm glad I found it. My collection is nothing Earth shaking , I don't own Adolph's mustache or anything so rare that I have to keep it in the Bank (wish I did though!). Just a normal collection from someone who loves Military History like you ..I always enjoy seeing other collections and hope you feel the same. There's something about the Iron Cross that (to me at least) always put it a cut above all of the other TR awards. So about 8 years ago, I started buying everyone I ran into ..I'm still not sure why but now I'm glad I did. I already started filling up my 3d Ryker Mount but I'm still not tired of them .

I thought you'd like to see the group so far. --Mike

I shall make no other comments, but his "reading list" is IMMENSELY "troubled". I shall say no more.

His Unit Summary and Combat action report was not offensive in any way ..he made no Political comment or voiced any opinions regarding the War being just or not.

Your comment inferred that the Captain was in some way flawed because of his "reading list"

Your comment also set a negative tone for the whole post by being vague .

I honestly thought that it would have been a nice perspective to share with the other members ..but , that's fine , I removed the whole post .. If the books on his reading list helped him to understand the Iraqi People and the situation there ..what right do any of us have to question it ? Have you spent a year with an Infantry Unit in Iraq? I know these Men , I knew the whole Company BEFORE 9/11 (and this Captain was one of the FIRST Officers on site when it happened) and Fed them both before they left as well as after they came home ..I am very Proud of their service and am VERY defensive when it comes to ANY British/American/Australian or other Allied Soldiers service in Iraq. I don't rely on CNN for my news and commentary on the War ..I get it from the Men and Women who lived it.

I don't want to insult a decorated Veteran by second guessing his choice of reading material so ..I got the message and removed the post. You win Ed !

Sorry , this was a mistake

Does anyone know if the dotted ones are lightweight versions -- if they have a cupal frame ? I'd think it would be really hard for anyone to copy that sandwich effect.