Mike

1920 Cufftitle

My contribution --

I think Dave is on target with this ?just how rare TENO Uniforms are is obvious when we compare how many more Political ,RAD ,HJ ,SA and even SS Tunics we see in today?s collections . I discussed this with a German Veteran I met once and he said that since many of the TENO were electricians ,engineers , technicians ?after the War they were all looking for work and many stripped their Tunics (or burned items) since they didn?t want any NS connection in their homes. I told him that didn?t make sense since there would still be a paper trail and files proving membership were available to the Allies. He said people feared having their homes searched by the Allies and thought it better to ?clean house?.

I also wonder how many TENO teams saw and worked on KZ Lager related projects like ?Zement? (Mauthausen) (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/gusen/gu20101x.htm )

The average German Civilian would never see or know about those projects .And unless they were Party hard liners ?I?m sure that what they saw would ?sour? many TENO members opinions of the regime they were working for ?..might also give them less incentive to save their Uniforms and ?regalia?.

In ?45 we saw RAD. HJ and many Volkssturm units fighting in the streets ?I?ve yet to see a TENO Volkssturm Unit. In the end , I have a feeling they knew the score ..

Hello. I know this is long after this discussion but i have to "ruperts" i did not know that they were such a collectors item until i was told. Do you have any idea where i could possibly sell them. Thanks Tom

Welcome to the Forum Tom !

I was told that a Rupert sold for over $2000 through a European Auction House so , it might be worth putting a reserve on it and giving Ebay a try.

How did you end up with 2 of them ?

--Mike

Oh no-- something Nietzsche/Nazi

"In (the) struggle alone is victory."

a "Neo Nietzsche" ??

Years ago she was told that it belonged to a German General ...probably based on it being engraved and the gold showing on the hangers . I think the Gold might be the Brass showing.

Thanks again Rick :beer:

Thanks Rick ...I honestly had a feeling that locking this in would be a long shot but , I told her I'd post it to see what was said.

I'm not heavy into Blades so ...it's a little out of my realm

Thanks --Mike

37 hits and no comment yet ...I guess I feel better now knowing I'm not the only one who's never seen anything like this.

I'll tell her to contact Johnson or Whitman

back --

#4 Crest .. The quality of the Text is so much better than the detail /work on the crest

#3 Text

#2

Hi Gents ...A good friend of mine owns this Blade and although she is not a Collector , she'd really like to know more about the crest and engraving.

I've never run into an Army engraved like this ...don't know if any of you might have.

The Crest looks rather crude when compared with the Text .

Opinions anyone ?

HELLO DAVID !!! ?.finally get to meet up with you on a GREAT Forum ( as you?ve already seen)

Gents ?I just wanted to make sure you all knew that because of Dave , the TENO section in Vol 2 of the German Police will be the most comprehensive work ever done on the TN . Hugh Page Taylor and Jack Angolia both told me that Dave kept supplying them with so much material that in the end , Hugh said they actually could have done a Book on the TENO alone.

Collectors worldwide who had an interest in this group were brought together by Dave ?many rare items came to light that would have otherwise never been shared with our Community. I just wanted to make sure his dedication to documenting History was recognized here .

Thanks for all your hard work Dave

Mike,

I contacted my friend in Iraq and I learned a lot from his reply. The uniform is for the General Fedaration of Iraqi Youth.He doesn't know the names of the three types of camouflage patterns but the blue and brown types contain the map of the Arabian Countries(from the Gulf to the Ocean) while the green type is the normal camouflage pattern.

The youth soldiers blue camo. uniform is used by those under 12 years old(primary school ages). Bob

Thanks for looking into this for me Bob ...really interesting and I wonder if there were any Books Published about Saddam's "Youth Soldiers" Org.

Not sure what you'd call it ..."Sea World Camo Pattern " ?

Keep me in mind if you ever see one , it would be great if I could complete the set

--

Great display Lorenzo ..Thanks

If you ever see a Childs Blue Camo Cap that matches the pattern below ..PLEASE pick it up for me !

I have an almost complete Uniform and the Poster but ..it was only missing the Cap.

From what I could find out , this is the Uniform of the "Saddam's Young Lions" (or such) ...I guess he wanted his own version of the HJ. I've been trying to find the Cap for 2 years now without any luck

Glad you liked it Brian , Thanks. There?s a new Booklet on the 2Pdr that was just Published this year (?Service Publications ? in Canada)

They used my 2Pdr on the front cover ? http://www.servicepub.com/

If you get a chance, it would be worth it to find a copy . Doug Knight really did a nice job on the Book.

Hi Brian , That's a wonderful example of a 2Pdr on the Mark 4 Carriage ..I think that was the standard config only for the Canadian Model.

Did you happen to get a shot of the ID plate ?

Even though it was replaced by the 6Pdr , the 2Pdr served through the whole War and did a great job in the Pacific since Japanese Armor wasn't a match for it.

The Littlejohn Adaptor really extended its service "Life".

My 2Pdr is a 1942 Australian Mk9 on a Mk2 Carriage ...it's a great design but then , I'm biased :rolleyes:

Great Ring Eric ...However , I don't see anything connecting it to the Blue Lodge. I don't remember ever seeing a Dragon on any Masonic item .

Dietrich just checked 2 War Time Catalogs he has ( S&L and Deumer ) and although they have Imperials listed, he said there were not any PLM's. I guess If there were replacements made during the War ..maybe they were only custom ordered. ?

Les ...even if you can't find that picture, it sounds like these are S&L since you said they were small . I can clearly see the size difference even though the design differs.

I still wonder why we don't see more of these ...what type of profit could they make from doing a small "run" of them unless all the fake PLM's they sold came with Oaks ?

Thanks for posting them ...I didn't realize the patterns differed so much

Mike,

If you can wait a couple of days, I'll root out and send you a photo of S&L oaks the firm made for their post WWII PlMs. The S&L ones are smaller than originals, are gilded bronze, and have the same type of back that's dished out. The originals show stamping on both sides, in addition to other details. Period "oaks" as already mentioned, were the same on the Rot Adler, etc.

Les

Thanks for that Les ..now we're getting somewhere. I should have known you'd have some info on this ! Have you ever seen any PLM's produced during the War (WW2 of course) as well ? Since S&L has a track record of using their old War Time Dies again in the 1950's (Type "B" RK)..I wonder if there might be something we've overlooked , or never addressed before.

The thing is ...I've never said pre 1918. I'm wondering if they were producing PLM's in the late 30's and early 40's.

Also we've all seen it before ..every fake ends up showing up on a Reddick or Kels or Reenactor website at some point ..Or at Shows.

The fake set shown with the PLM has the "mirror image" ..pretty detailed casting to include that. Was that Oak set ID'd without any doubt as a fake?

Back in 1970 I remember one dealer telling me that if I ever saw an Imperial EK with an LDO number ..it was a Fake.

Oh well .....

Hello Miguel:

These oakleaves are totally unlike known genuine Zahringen Lion oakleaves [of which there are two (2) types]. In my opinion, unfortunately, the oakleaves presented at the start of this thread are a modern-made cast copy of PLM or RAO oakleaves.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hi Schie?platz , Have you ever seen the same exact style as this offered for sale as a reproduction before ? I'd hate to label it as a fake without proof and then years later find out that they had made some replacement PLM Oaks while the TR was in Business ..sometimes the easy answer ends up costing in the long run .

Besides ...we see fake PLMs , but I don't remember seeing a repro set of Oaks like these ...and since no one else has chimed in , it looks like no one else has either.

If they were making these back in the 60's or ..even today ...we'd have seen a lot more than Bob Hritz's and my examples for sale ..and mine showing up in a bag of tinnies like that ? I didn't pay much for that bag at all so ...the Oaks were free. And , I don't plan on selling them anyway ..just thought it would be interesting to find if anyone had seen another set like them.

I posted this on WAF as well ...almost 500 Views and except for Bob posting his ..no other examples and no definitive answers