joerookery

what a superb picture! I think Robert hit it on the head. There were actually company sized organizations that went to the battlefield and picked up debris that could be reused. From there it was sent to the BIA. It would seem to me that that would be fairly roughly handled. Once the helmet went to the BIA it was inspected, repaired, reinspected and when found to be good to go it was marked [in theory] and sent back out to unit. Every once in awhile you will find one that was repaired by a different corps. This is the first picture I have seen of this type and would love to have a copy of this scan. Based on the mixture of helmets I would think this is 1915.

The helmets that were sent back to the depot for storage were indeed kept nice. Many of these helmets were liberated after the war by the Americans -- shipped back to America and used as incentives to buy war bonds.

Thank You!

This time an Uan!

The 122nd Fusilier Regiment did indeed push on to southern Serbia. In June of 1916 the Regiment was sent to Galatia in response to the June Russian offensive. x In that operation, the Regiment was severely decimated.

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Scroll_helmets.html

The last number on the helmet might be a 5 -- cannot be certain. Seems to have the corner decorations on a type 1 similar to the 238 picture.

What do you think is going on here???

it is really important in these helmets to look at the back of the Wappen. There is no picture in the eBay advertisement of the back of that plate. It seems as though the screws that extend through the shell are too thin for originals. So very hard to tell with just these pictures. I hope this helps.

Back into the breach! I have been unable to find the conventions themselves but this newspaper article from the New York Times 1871 discusses the conventions before the unification. I do not know if the payments continued in addition to the Matricular contributions -- other things I have read led me to doubt that. So if there were changes dictated by the grand Duke in 1897, as shown in the regimental history of infantry Regiment 115, there must have been some paperwork that gave him that authority. The Kaiser seems to have delegated that in 1899:

Any idea of about this paperwork? Seems like Mecklenburg was the same. Any help appreciated!

Each contingent had its own Bekleidungsordnung. This is for Prussia.

This makes sense for Saxony, Bavaria, Prussia, and W?rttemberg. But somehow I seem to recall a teil 2 type Hessian regulation. Where am I going wrong? As usual there are conflicts in the lines and jurisdictions between the states and the Army Corps. perhaps the state announced decisions and maybe the Army Corps complied??? This is very blurred as for instance the Hessian officer corps was in the Prussian army and linked directly to the Kaiser. The Grand Duke was a figurehead.

Thank you both for the quick responses! This was obscure but apparently I hit paydirt.

Glenn how do I find a copy of this Ordnung? This really answers a huge amount of questions. So I assume that the Army Corps was given funding equal to their units. This should not be very flexible as the top line would not have varied over five-year blocks. So with the Kaiser instituting 31 different uniform changes there is no way that the budget could keep up. This explains temporary fixes on helmets.

This Ordnung could also give you a complete listing of what soldiers were supposed to have according to the Minister of war in 1901 -- for instance there were questions previously about gloves and the answer is right there.

The wear out dates are also relatively surprising. I had always thought that a leather helmet was good for 10 years. Thinking of it now I don't know where that source was and I cringe to think it may have been Bowman . based on the pencil markings it looks as though the helmets went from eight to six years sometimes after 1901.

Glenn, as usual I am in your debt! Just don't leave that Bekleidungsordnung unguarded. I would really like to see what else was in the kitbag. I really value these responses. The fact that Rick did not have this at the tip of his fingers means that it must be extremely obscure!

I know this is obscure but are there copies of the Army budgets available anywhere? What I am looking for specifically are differences in funding for different uniform types. For instance some of the helmet Wappen were far more ornate than the standard Prussian. These cost more in the private purchase world but how were the enlisted soldiers equipped? How specifically did that work for Army Corps that were kingdom specific like the Saxons? Thanks for any help for hints in advance!

These wars have fascinated me. I have just have a hard time finding sources that do not contradict each other. It seems as though many histories borrow ideas from the one written before it. So the story gets watered down a bit. I had to chase down the province of Lauenburg forever. I am still not sure what all the special privileges were in there was some point in time where the province was considered equal in title only with Prussia. So if this interests anyone... here are a couple of thoughts from a grumpy old man.

In 1815, the province of Holstein was admitted to the German Confederation, because the population was ethnically German. In this way, the Danish king became part of the German Confederation. Schleswig, in contrast was 50% Danish, had never been part of the Holy Roman Empire and was considered an integral part of the Danish kingdom by the Danes. There were also three provinces involved. The third one was called Lauenburg, and was often considered a small add-on to Holstein. There was a pre-1850 movement within Denmark to create an independent state named Schleswig-Holstein. Denmark objected, offered independence to Holstein, but insisted that Schleswig be closely tied to Denmark and to eliminate Schleswig?s home rule and linguistic privileges. In 1850, the German Confederation asked Prussia to police Danish ideas in this region. Prussia was successful, and though the three provinces remained part of Denmark, they were all allowed local autonomy.

Lauenburg (1848-1865), a duchy of Germany, formerly belonging with Holstein to Denmark, but from 1865 to Prussia. In 1848, during the first war between Prussia and Denmark, Lauenburg was occupied at her own request by some Hanoverian troops, and was then administered for three years under the German Confederation. Denmark incorporated the duchy in 1853. After the war of 1864 between Denmark and Prussia/Austria Lauenburg was ceded with Schleswig and Holstein to the two powers. By the convention of Gastein (14th of August 1865) Austria surrendered her claim over Lauenburg to Prussia in return for the payment of nearly ?300,000. Lauenburg entered the North German confederation in 1866 and the new German empire in 1871. Lauenburg retained its constitution and its special privileges until the 1st of July 1876, when it was incorporated into the kingdom of Prussia.

it could have taken even longer.

Thanks! Now that makes great sense. Two sessions were required but it could take years to finish the process. Somehow my narrow little mind overlooked that simple make sense solution. If I'm right the candidate did not get promoted to Vize until after he finished the first session. I am sure there were exceptions. Thanks Again!

He would probably have been around 23 years of age on first commissioning.

I'm just trying to stay between the navigational beacons here -- if I am correct the top two guys on the list are very possibly following the career path of a one-year volunteer. Therefore, I find it difficult to pin down commissioning age without knowing some secondary and postsecondary education. This guy's age makes most sense if he had continued on with his education perhaps through university. However, a normal one-year volunteer could possibly be commissioned far earlier. Does his active year from 17 to 18. Goes directly into his two years commissioning training -- and commissioned in the reserves at the age of about 20.

Okay coaches what did I do wrong? I think I am right but clearly could have missed something.

Yup, "3" on the helmet covers, yet they are Bavarian Reserve Pioneer Company 16.

Why do you think this is? I know there were a lot of Bavarian helmet covers with division numbers but I don't get this 1 -- what am I missing? Help me Mr. Wizard!

Chris,

I believe that stands for: Soldaten Brief

The exact nomenclature for the battalion is:

3.Ldst.-I.-Ers.-Btl. IV A.K. (IV. 21)

Formed in August of 1914, the unit was assigned to general support of fourth Army Corps.

This article might give you some more info on Landsturm.

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Landsturm.html

I hope this is somewhat helpful.

Folks,

I finally redid the one-year volunteer article. Hopefully this is not as confusing. I know there are a million mistakes. If you?re interested it is located at:

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/new%2...arVolunteer.htm

Thanks and God bless.

VR/Joe

I don't know if that guy is wearing an Asian uniform however, here is a guy of Asian descent in a Saxon uniform who obviously survived the Musterung process.

I did not know that those field flashlights existed then!!

This is a page from the reprinted Mueller catalog. I was actually stunned to see all the things that were available. Apparently these flashlights had major battery problems.

Paul,

My opinion matches Dave's. I don't think they did a very good job on the front of the Wappen either. Spike and liner look bad. Got to wonder why they went through all this trouble and then put a Baden cockade on it. I'm really sorry.

Now that was really fun to read! Thank you for your efforts on this.

Thank you for that fast reply! That was very clear. Amazing that these guys accrued so many awards. Maybe I should learn something about medals it sounds like fun. Thanks again.

The folks on the pickelhaubes forum suggested I post this here. I do not know one medal from the next.

Glenn gave this identification...

that is most probably the long serving Stabstrompeter of Feldartillerie-Regiment von Scharnhorst (1. Hannov.) Nr. 10, Obermusikmeister Eule. He is wearing the 1908-1912 pattern shoulder boards. Herr Eule had been the Stabstrompeter of FAR 10 from at least 1898-1911. He was awarded the Allgemeine Ehrenzeichen in Gold in the Ordensfest of January 1898 whilst holding the rank of Milit?r-Musikdirigent.

I would love to have some medal knowledgeable person explain this ribbon bar a bit -- with all those medals what did this guy do? Conquer France single-handedly with his band instrument? I always thought the American Air Force gave out a lot of medals but the sheer weight of this group of medals must have made it harder to keep straight. Thank You.

thanks Chip, I am leaning towards the last option for question one.

Reference the marks, how were they different? I'm making a list of them but I have no idea how to tell Prussian from Bavarian by the marks alone. Here are 2 examples:

Can you tell from looking at these markings? What should I be looking for? Thank you

I have two related questions if I might.

Has anyone ever heard of a reserve Bekleidungsamt? A Landwehr Bekleidungsamt? Or did the administrative corps areas provide Bekleidungsamt services for more than the numbered corps?

Did the Bavarian corp's Bekleidungsamt use the same marking as the Prussian corps Bekleidungsamt? (BAI,BAII)?

Thanks in advance!

Chris,

There is really no mystery about the 247. The mountain machine-gun elements 211 -- 250 all seem to be adequately documented. The problem is in the regiments. 51 for example exists in no documentation that I'm aware of concerning scroll elements. Yet, there certainly is a picture!