Ed_Haynes

I would agree with Jan. A Sukhbaatar for herding achievements seems to me to be much more desirable than a long service military award. Maybe is is just a pro-military myopia that distorts the reality of Mongolian society and its awards? Obviously, those Sukhbaatars (implicitly) paired with either of the hero stars will seem best. Still, any Sukhbaatar is better than none at all.

Nevertheless, the ability to put a name and date and rough conditions of award onto these medals seems to be to be a significant research advance on the current "one-of-each" stamp-collecting approach of some collectors. Full Soviet- or British-style research may or may not be available soon, but it strikes me that a bit of history is much better than none at all.

And research progress is moving along. I expect to know more first-hand this summer. Real-world issues have slowed prpogress, but most of us do have lives. Also the change of government in Ulanbaatar has meant that some linkages have had to be reinvented.

The unfortunate (and troubling?) reverse.

Just to preserve the image and the history.

The description:

Complete Group of 2 Decorations Badge of Distinction of the Military Order of St George, 4th cl, #97675, 1904; Medal for the Battle of Chemulpo (Varyag and Koreets), 1904. Issued to Sailor Aleksandr Skvernyak, Stoker 2nd cl. aboard the Cruiser Varyag.

The Badge of Distinction of the Military Order of St. George (or, as it was called later, St. George Cross). In silver, 34.3 mm wide, 34.1 mm tall not including the eyelet. Weight 11.5 g not including the suspension and connecting link. Serial number "97675" is stamped in standard font of the period. The shape of the eyelet, details of the medallion and finish of the edge are all characteristic of the St. George Crosses of the Russo-Japanese War period. In near mint condition. Raised details are completely free of wear. No nicks, significant scratches or other damage. Shows beautiful, even patina to silver. The connecting link is original to the Cross.

The Medal for the Battle of Chemulpo (Battle of Varyag and Koreets in direct translation from Russian), 1904. In silver, 30.1 mm wide, 30.0 mm tall at the eyelet. Weight 16.4 g without connecting link. Magnificently detailed, in near mint condition matching precisely condition of the St. George Cross, down to same exact tone of silver patina.

Suspension and Ribbons Incredibly, both medals remain attached to their original suspension device which retains its original ribbons, including the practically nonexistent Chemulpo ribbon with its Imperial naval ensign design. The blue cross is woven into the ribbon, and not applied as paint or colored felt as seen on replacements. The ribbons display the pleasing and unmistakable age patina of textiles from this era. They show wear to the surface, revealing the fine weave pattern underneath.

The previous owner applied a piece of modern self-adhesive velcro to the reverse for his display purposes. We have made no attempt to remove it.

During the battle of Chemulpo Bay, at the start of the Russo-Japanese War, Varyag and the gunboat Koreets faced a vastly superior Japanese squadron of six cruisers and eight destroyers. Instead of surrender, the Russian ships opened fire in a heroic gesture of defiance. The Russian artillery crewmen stuck to their guns despite the lack of splinter shields. When they were put out of action by notoriously accurate Japanese gunnery, the Varyag was scuttled. Although the battle ended in defeat, the event was celebrated as an example of Russian doggedness. For pressing a heroic attack in the face of certain destruction, the crews of both vessels were honored as national heroes and the epitome of the indomitable Russian fighting spirit. A special medal was struck for the enlisted and petty officers involved. Due to the small number of participants eligible to receive it, only 697 were made. The actual number issued was fewer due to those eligible dying of wounds or not returning from captivity. Additionally, everyone eligible for a Chemulpo was awarded a St. George. Thus a Chemulpo without its associated St. George is incomplete.

Note also, the number of St George 4th class issued for the battle was fewer than the number of Chemulpo medals, due to the number of crew eligible for a 3rd class.

The name of the recipient, Aleksandr Skvernyak, has been determined by the number of the St. George Cross, using the listing in the recently published Russian language book "Badge of Distinction of the Military Order of St. George. List of Those Awarded for the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05". According to this book and also Internet sources such as schools.keldysh.ru, Skvernyak (or Skvernyakov in another version of his last name) was born in 1878.

Incredibly, after the battle of Chemulpo, Stoker Skvernyak was fated to participate in yet another event of profound historical importance to Russia. He transferred to the Black Sea Fleet and the infamous battleship Potemkin, where he served until 1905. This is where the historic record of Skvernyak ends, making it practically certain that Skvernyak took part in the June 1905 mutiny. His name is not among the few crewmen who decided to return to Russia to face trial (their medals were consequently confiscated). As most of the crew, he went on to live in exile and probably never wore his medals again - which would account for their exceptional condition. Exile would also explain the absence of the 1905 Medal for the Russo-Japanese War, as the mutiny happened before the war was over.

The combination of completeness (down to the original ribbons) and extremely low number of medals issued makes this medal bar a complete grouping of exquisite rarity. Moreover, its association with tragic-heroic events leading ultimately to the collapse of the Russian Empire and a new dark age for the Russian people, makes this a group of historical significance rarely seen on the open market. This artifact may be truly considered a national treasure of Russia.

With apolgies to Igor!

Any change of a scan (which would be legible)?

So many of the contemporary political parties have established things named after the great man . . .

For those who may not have seen it yet, there is a delightful article in the January-February 2008 JOMSA: Charles H. Pankey and Dragos Baldescu, "Royal Romanian Order of the Crown (Ordinul Corona Romanie)," JOMSA 59, 1 (January-February 2008): 2-12.

Very interesting. I have (and Battushig shows) the "school diamond" for this university, but we don't know much else and the badge you show is quite new. Will try to learn more. These are the sorts of things that should gop into the second edition of Battushig's book!

Doh . . . . . . of course . . . I like learning things, even if I get to look stupid in the process. Mr. Holmes said something about the obvious?

Like named or numbered things better . . . .

Plausible, I guess, though quite odd to my novice eyes too. But how would you ever know for sure? Easy enough to assemble?

How careful were French veterans in purchasing the exact reverse dates to which they were entitled? We may never know? Was this checked with any care by the vendors who sold them these medals? Obviously, the reverse dates mattered to the veteran who wore Chris' recent (lovely) group, but was this unusual or common?

I have always assumed that medals awarded (unusual in French phaleristics) to foreigners (I have some groups with CdGs to Indians, from both wars) were dated based on when the deed was performed, or was it the date of the authorising orders?

Many questions, few answers.

It will continue free, I suspect.

Yes, quite a lovely group. A shame there's no name to go with it, but in its lovely anonymous state it represents quite well any one of the soldiers.

The emerging theory makes sense to this outsider. I do wonder however whether he may have had a Victory originally mounted, but removed it when the CdC came along to make space for the new award. In any case, this arrangment speaks of the unknown repipient.

$1925

No doc

Yes, the price, for my money, was insane. QUITE.

But, ECON 101, it is worth just what some damn fool will pay for it on any given date. While e$cam may be a bad guide, . . . .

Glad I have the SBs I do. They won't see many newly visiting cousins, I'm content to have to say. They can just deal with that fact.

Now . . . for reasearch . . . .

Sukhe Bator pin-back SN 902 sold on eBay for $1925.

William

Interesting. At 902 it is really low for a pinback, but not the recorded low (813). Assume it was an undocumnetd single?

Price?

No one has a clue on the post-1992 order of precendence (and there's scant enought by way of a guide to pre-1992 precedence). I have a question outstanding in UB on just that issue right now. I know the "second edition" will be doing more in this regard.

Whatever that may be, it is not the Order of Chengis Khan, despite what it says. The phrase "fantasy-fake" comes to mind. We know many Russian collectors have deep pockets, maybe they have active imaginations as well. That isn't even the ugly "Order of Chingis Khan" created by the Mongolian Democratic Party (B 48). It is worse than that!

Megan: While three classes have been authorised, only the first has even been awarded to date (the collar and badge) and that only twice (to presidents N. Bagabandi and N. Enkhbayar); the second and third classes have, so far as I know, not even been manufactured. While it could be listed, I think not.

Without permission (and I hate doing this), I am posting Battushig's image to forestall further disinformation. I would have thought most have his book by now -- it is good immunization against epidemic outbreaks of imaginary medals -- but apparently not. See p. 44.

Our friendly New Jersey dealer has an interesting Tsarist pair:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18549

Pocket change, right . . . ?? For some, maybe.

And, if you think Soviet prices are crazy, try this Tsarist twin:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18549

Just over THREE TIMES the previous . . .

Nice . . . but . . .

Insane price? Maybe? Maybe not? RBL type 1.1:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18414

Just $65,000.00.

Just.

Yes. I fear the quiz is on life support just now.

...& what about this one, I assume its like our VC?

This is the Goild Star for the title "Hero of the Soviet Union". Roughly, a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor equialent (roughly).

Can anyone give me any examples as to what this medal would be awarded for. Of greatest interest, would be anything WW2 related?

There are a LARGE number of threads in the "researched" sub-forum with Red Stars.

Christian,

Yes, he did here.

Marc

Not of much use to most of us, alas.

Looks Egyptian to me. But that is just a guess.

Thanks!!! I'll go ahead and try to get it researched.

Doc

Early enough, I think it would be worth asking. If the answer is "no", it costs nothing (even though it takes more "person-hours" to get a negative result than to get a positive one).

Unless a reunification was in play . . .