Ed_Haynes

I have seen some images of the proposals. Terrible neo-Tsarist Putanistic stuff. And very "gay".

The good uniforms were pre-1943, of course!

Oh . . . nice, Anatoly.

Thanks.

What an unbelievable piece of sad ego-inflating garbage. (I cleaned up that post.)

Welcome Demir. We need your wisdom.

Somewhere, I have seen this discussed. Essentially a civilian version of the War Medal?

Lovely!

Unfortunately, both the OMSA and OMRS have given up on any effort at setting or enforcing any ethical standards or code of conduct. This shameful, and some of us would like to see this change, but that is the way it is, and the current officers of both societies seem quite uninterested in any change.

Ленд-Лиз - "LEND- LEASE"

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Perhaps the powers that be over here can condense all the previous postings into one comprehensive frame?

I vote Ed Haynes to be the man for the job!

Ha, ha, ha -- Richie, you DO have a sense of humor! I have not The Power in this forum (or in most, for that matter).

Though it would be nice to have a unified vocabulary list.

This has the look of the labor order and the labor medal.

Manufacture or design?

Looking around other threads will yield riches, but a good question.

Example of a forearm star:

Paul:

Quit your day job.

Write your book.

Please . . . .

Ed

Speaking on behalf of myself and the other Russian-language illiterates here, I want to (again) thank Rick, and Rick, and the others on the forum who assist us in the translation and disentangling of these valuable research materials. Only thus is history recaptured and restored. Many thanks! I know how much work it is to produce an accurate and readable translation.

Ah . . . for RNA-based language-acquisition injections . . . or a nice computer chip to plug in behind the right ear . . . or a Babel Fish that worked (unlike the one online) . . . .

Interesting link, Roidion.

Based on that, the only reference I could find to the insignia on the shoulder board with which I started the thread translates out as:

During the edition of Rules following changes are entered: to generals nonproduction, and quartermaster services it is established погон from gold волоки and выпушками crimson color. Color выпушек погон the generals of nonproduction service serving in aircraft, - blue. Color of stars on погонах - silver, buttons - gold.

To the officers of nonproduction service serving by the ships and in staffs of connections of the ships, signs on distinction of officers of ship service with obligatory carrying on погонах the emblem of the silver color representing шестерню with imposed on it трехлопастным by the screw are established.

In this connection item 50 to read in following edition:

" On погонах admirals engineering-ship, and also on погонах generals medical services and justices are imposed золоченые emblems. An emblem on погонах generals of artillery, nonproduction and veterinary services - silver color ".

Whatever that means . . . .

Thanks, Owain! Shukran! As you know -- all so well -- trying to get reliable information when you're in the region is difficult; trying to get such information when you're out of the region is completely impossible.

There have been some good points made here, but also some fairly childish outbursts.

A fake is a fake. If a replica of any award is made that has the fraudulent maker's mark and a fraudulent serial number it is -- guess what? -- a fraud, a fake, a lie. Such things -- whether made expertly or not -- are made to deceive, to assert with a maker's mark and a serial number that the award is real. They are also made to separate fools from their funds and constitute poison in the communal phaleristic well. Whether this sad practice is illegal or not, it is unethical and immoral. It is the act of a crook and to defend this is to crawl into their sewer.

If a faked medal has the word copy (in whatever language) and no maker's mark, then it is a replica, dirty but not fully sewer-worthy. Having recently gotten into uniforms, I see the need to find replica medals to "dress" the uniform. I would see it as inapproproiate and disrespectful to place someone else's medals onto the uniform of a stranger. In obtaining copies, if I am forced to adopt fakes (Kapral krap for example), I shall soon act to scratch out the serial number, obliterate the maker's mark, and name these for what they are in deep letters engraved on the reverse "F A K E".

The idea that one needs fakes to "fill the blanks" is disturbing. None of us, I expect, will (or should) ever have an Order of Victory. Live with it. To be consumed by a wish to do so would be to collect like a novice coin- or stamp-collector (both items without history), merely trying to get one of each to fill the blanks in the album. But would they tolerate the introduction of poisonus faked stamps or coins to fill their "gaps"? I suspect any serious collector could answer that question with ease. And I would hope that collectors are scholars and not interior decorators, trying to "complete the frame".

To confuse the Umalatova awards with fakes misses, I think, their point and their interest. They are artifacts of history, politics, and sociology in their own right, slightly more legitimate than the "orders" still awarded (against payment) by the dispossed "royal" families of pre-1918 Europe.

Anyone have a good photo off this award? I have heard of it when I was in Saudi, but never seen a closeup photo of it.

Some classes of the Order of Abdul Aziz are shown at the OMSA site

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=539

and on Megan's site

http://www.medals.org.uk/saudi-arabia/saudi-arabia003.htm

but neither is very complete.

I think Yuri's site had some too, but his site now seems to have died. A pity.

Ed & Co.

GWB appears to have been awarded three awards during his recent jaunt to the Gulf:

Palestine/Israel - Nil.

Kuwait - nil, although his father was awared the Collar of Mubarak the Great.

Bahrain - Collar, etc., of the Order of Shaikh Issa named after the late ruler of Bahrain.

Qatar - nil.

UAE - Collar, etc., of Order of Shaikh Zayed named after the later ruler of the UAE.

KSA - Collar of the Order of Abdulaaziz - his father was also a recipient of this award.

Egypt - nil.

Perhaps he has already been awarded Kuwait & Qatar awards during visits by their Heads of State to DC in earlier years of his office??

Owain.

Thanks, Owain. Even as I said "Order of the Khalifa" I suspected this was wrong. Had seen some reference to the Order of Shaikh Issa but never real information. Single-class?

Where can they be obtained, Paul?

I have the other two books (with their English keys), so why not add two more books I can't read

I know there has been a lot of talk about an Imperial China book, but I haven't gotten the sense there was much substance behind it. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Yes!! Nice new books.

Indeed....

When you look at the wondrful quality of the WW1 medals, and the fact that millions were awarded....

nowdays there are fewer awarded, and the quality has suffered badly.....

There is NO rational ratio ?????

Very confusing . . . .

Yes, maybe a record score for ugly medals -- and they have much competition from US gongs!

So sad, for the French (see: St. Helena Medal) have (had) such a good track record!

For a little (a lot) more detail, see:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/cn.html

and follow the links.

Anyway, back to the medal . . .

It does look familiar, back in the day when I was weaving (parts of) the M&E sales into the OMSA database (as Jeff suggested) . . . .

Didn't China itself have a similar flag before The Big One? Maybe before 1911 and the KMT takeover?

Hugh

Yes, of course. Adopted later for Manchuguo.

Yes, these Italian FAKES are especially dangerous and especially poisonous. It is a shame that so many seem to have such a high tolerance level for these shameless frauds (both the medals and the makers).

If (IF) there is a place for copies (maybe to hang onto uniforms?), then they shoudl be CLEARLY and unambiguously marked as such.

I have it on Very Good Authority that work is starting on a revised and greatly expanded 2nd edition of Battushig's book. Watch this space . . . .

It is probably the Order of the Khalifa, but it is hard to tell from the photo. Owain?

Sash, sash badge.

Collar, collar badge.

Breast star.

Miniature.

Lapel doo-dad.

Large pretentious box.

No comments on the individuals shown. Nice otherwise!

It sounds like Bush may also have gotten the collar of the Saudi Order of Abdul Aziz, but all the idiot media can do is describe it as a"piece of bling". Gag.

... I regret to say though, that making and selling of fakes, is not a new trend in the Phaleristical market...

Enzo

Of course it is not new, it has been around (at least in British phaleristics) since the 1870s. It has just become easier with new anonymous ways to sell and flocks of new 'collectors' who enter the shark infested waters without ever bothering to read books or articles.