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Posts posted by Ed_Haynes
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And, finally, the very full awards page. Still need to do some deciphering here with the help of friends in UB.
He seems to be missing an additional orders book and the KG document is, unfortunately, gone.
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Closeup on photo.
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I will be sending off for research and hoping I live long enough for results.
As most of the documents are pretty familiar, I won't bother posting most of them.
The order book:
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Moreover, Dave wrote a very good article in JOMSA.
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All I have ever gotten for Mongolian awards is the award record card. Somewhere there is a Red Star to a Mongolian that I have only as a document; see: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14692
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Private = Sepoy (infantry) = Sowar (cavalry)
Corporal = Naik (infantry) = Lance-Dafadar (cavalry)
Sergeant = Havildar (infantry) = Dafadar (cavalry)
Jemadar (infantry - Naib-Subadar after independence) = Ressaidar (cavalry)
Subadar (infantry) = Risaldar (cavalry)
Subadar-Major (infantry) = Risaldar-Major (cavalry) = God
A bit more complex than this, but close enough.
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What is the US equivalent to a Naib Subadar (= Jemadar)? A Sargent or a Corporal?
There is no real equivalent. These were the commissioned ranks for Indians, who were generally disallowed king's commissions until the 1930s. Maybe a US warrant officer rank would be the closest? (If warrant officers were real and normal and powerful?) But the VCO/JCO ranks are uniquely Indian.
Also, I thought that the British Govt was paying the Pensions to these soldier's?No. India is independent, partially so since 1947, fully so since 1950. And they inherited all these pension responsibilities, not only for thsoe soldiers who continued to serve after independence (as he did).
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Two more, in the group to Lieutenant-General Damdin Tserenjav.
Red Star 1780090 (1950)
Red Star 3700041 (1971)
(Shown with his other Soviet stuff.)
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More to come . . . .
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And him, with son (?).
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And some things from a neighbor.
Red Star 1780090 (1950)
Red Star 3700041 (1971)
Victory over Japan
25th Anniversary of Victory
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Part 2.
30th Anniversary of Khalkin Gol
50th Anniversary of MPA
50th Anniversary of Revolution
50th Anniversary of State Security
30th Anniversary of Victory
40th Anniversary of Khalkin Gol
60th Anniversary of Revolution
70th Anniversary of Revoluition
Brotherhood in Arms
Border Buard #305
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It being some silly US holiday that carries with it significant family infestations, it may take some time to get this all up, but to start off on this group with his awards, part 1:
Sukhbaatar 723 (10 March 1970) -- missing -- ANYONE HAVE IT???
Red Banner of Combat Valor 1416 (no document)
Order of Combat Valor 95 (September 1946)
Order of Combat Valor 552 (10 September 1954)
Order of the Polar Star 1555 (26 September 1945)
Order of the Polar Star 2624 (1 May 1948)
Honorary Medal of Combat No. 1341 (no document)
Khalkin Gol Medal
Medal "We Won" 904 (6 June 1946)
25th Anniversary of the Revolution 13405 (suspension repaired) (17 August 1946)
There are two other entries in the order book (see later on) which I cannot decipher at present. One is a missing Polar Star.
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Good thought.
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I dont see any good conduct medals. Were the brothers officers?
The army good conduct medal didn't exist in this era.
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Ed,
How much were they selling for? Just curious...
William
Jan's tale is the scary one. Let him answer.
My last time there (last March) all the dealers had printouts of Igor's site and priced accordingly, though they were holding onto their SBs, waiting for prices to rise even more.
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So roughly we could say that pinbacks have kept their value last year, but that screwbacks have steadily gone up in value.
Which is probably logical up to a certain point.
Jan
That seems a fair analysis, Jan. To a considerable degree, I suspect we are just seeing supply and demand, especially for the older (screwback) awards. For SBs (as for everything else), the days of easy availability at low prices are long past. Just remember what they sold for your first time in UB?!
Pondering doing a JOMSA article on the SB which may impact the market. As we know, once you have seen a SB, . . .
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It would be great if I can find at least a list of awardees by some orders and medals.
That much will, I think, be coming fairly soon, as research opens up.
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Good timing for this thread. (?) Ian Smith has just died. Some may consider that bad news? It is historically noteworthy nevertheless.
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Fascinating!
Though the visas are always as interesting as the passports.
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Have checked . . . and lucky for him, unlucky for you, he is not to be found on the POW list. With such a low regimental number, he may have left service before Kut?
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Lieutenant-General Damdin Tserenjav
in People's Republic Mongolia
Posted
There's probably more interest in his Soviet documents.
Red Star 1.
I find it interesting that he signed this one in bichig, while he signed his Mongolian book in Cyrillic.