Ed_Haynes

Actually, I bet he is holding back his feelings . . .

The Times

7 November 2007

Veterans barred from wearing medal

LONDON - Thousands of veterans of the war in Borneo in the 1950s and 1960s who have recently received special medals from the Malaysian Government will be barred from wearing them at Remembrance Day services this Sunday.

Last week alone, hundreds of ex-soldiers who fought communist rebels in the jungles of Borneo were presented with the Pingat Jasa Malaysia (PJM) medal, right. Under a longstanding ruling, veterans are not allowed to wear two medals for the same campaign and they were previously awarded a General Service Medal for their service in Borneo.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2821106.ece

So their purses didn't match their shoes?

A very good question. And we may be getting close enough to that happy time that such a step can be contemplated. Did we ever expect that we'd come so far on Mongolian awards?

indeed

Good questions, Bob. This is just the sort of issue I am now struggling with, and making progress only with the help of our Good Friend in Ulanbaatar.

The three labor hero sets I have are:

#38 - Banzragch Es - No. 95.37 - decree No. 279, on 27 October 1961

#52 - Suuigiyn Gombo - No. 109.51 - decree No. 196, on 28 November 1962

#79 - Gombo Lodokhuu - No. 137.79 - decree No. 13, on 10 February 1966 (guess I have never posted his?)

Close. But close isn't good enough.

It will be especially interesting to see if any links between the numbers on the awards and the serial numbers in the book can be seen for things like the titles of merit. Still seeking the guy on the documented one I have http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5056&st=14 . The good part (and the bad part) is that these "title" entries are arranged by the specific title, so there's a lot of looking (especially for one like me who doesn't know the language).

Additionally, sooner or later, it will be possible to get a reasonable count of the number of awards issued. I know a person who is working hard at doing just this.

The Sky Blue Bible also hints at the sort of information that is out there . . . .

The "Sky Blue Bible" entry for the Choibalsan Prize document shown above (though no photos):

Mr. Tsevegmid GAITAV (Choibalsan prize)

page 718. No. 28

Poet. Bogd Soum, Uvurkhangai province. 1961. For his historical poem "Damdin Sukhbaatar".

Translation:

Mr.Su GOMBO (Hero of Labor)

page 38. No. 109.51

born 1892 ? died unknown

born in Jeli province, China

(decree No. 196, on 28 November 1962 )

As a agro-technician at the Jargalant state farm of the Tuv (Central) province After the collapse of the Manchu empire and the consequent internal chaos, he resettled to the stable region and emigrated to Mongolia . He is of Chinese origin and since 1927 worked in the Jargalant state farm of the Tuv provine. He worked as the vegetable farmer and distinguished himself through his experience and was promoted to agro-technician in 1956. He got acquainted with the Mongolian climate and soil. Since 1943, he made experiments with the vegetable seeds which comply with the local conditions. As result, the need to buy the seeds was annulled, he introduced new method of the open air seed breeding thus increasing the harvesting. He invented the non-heating storages which prevented the vegetables from rotting and enabling the town dwellers to get the fresh onions in spring time. He had the merit in training a lot of people. With his mechanization of the vegetable farming, which was manual and horse driven, he amassed the profit of 1,5 million tugrik and harvested annually above the given plan from 295 up to 513 tons of potato. He was awarded two times with the Sukhbaatar order.

Translation:

Banzragch ES (Hero of Labor)

page 34. No. 95.37

born 1904, died 2000

born in Dundgobi province, Khuld soum

(decree No. 279, on 27 October 1961)

As camel herder in the "Talyn tsetseg" collective farm of Dundgobi province, Khuld soum. (translation of Talyn tsetseg - steppe flower)

She initiated the collectivization together with the local people in 1957. Initially she got 140 camels and during the next four years she got 216 young camel calves from 215 she-camels. In average, she got from one camel 5.1 - 5.8 kg wool, from one she-camel 100 - 120 litres milk. She was a delegate of the second conference of the collective farmers. She was awarded two times with Sukhbaatar order and one time with ?Polar star? order.

Yes, but . . .

. . . multi-part questions (guilty as charged) . . .

present real problems . . . ????

2/3? 7/9? 12/88?

A ruling??????

I served from 1961 - 1991, and don't see any real difference between this and the National Defense Service Medal. We're all wearing too much crap already. If this is approved by the services for wear by active duty members on the uniform, I'd take another look. Otherwise, it's just costume jewelry from my point of view.

Hugh:

Ed

As usual it seems that the person asking the question is not allowed his say by those too eager to move on. I have already commented on this in past.

Carol, whereas You have answered questions 1,2,3 and 3a perfectly, I am still waiting for the names of the MI 8 crew as this was part of my original set of questions - indeed it was the bonus question, the whole crux of the question as it were as I believe that these four heroes should be named.

So whereas I can agree that Carol should be awarded the win on principle for answering the bulk of the q's, I still do not think that we should move on until these four heroes are named.

Jim

No, I agree that the asker's response is BADLY needed.

If not OK, please do advise,

Right, Jim, we shall and must wait . . . .

In part, this is an issue with a multi-part question (of which I am quite guilty). If one gets 85%, then . . . ??????????????

Lovely, lovely images. Thanks!!

And a Pommie Iraq going apparently without clasp??

Nice . . .

Filling in every piece of the "puzzle" is always a good thing. All we can learn in important (vital?) in restoring the lost history to these "things"!

Thank you Ed! I could't imagine how much time you would spend if you were moderating all the sub-forums that you are regularly visiting!

Many of them, I do. But I have no life. Ask my wife and kids . . . .

Enquiring Minds Want to Know . . .

. . . from the Sky Blue Bible . . .

Her entry (p. 34):

From the Sky Blue Bible (dare we call it that now?):

His entry (p. 38).

The man.

Knowing ZERO Mongolian (at least it is in Cyrillic ) such that the diffrence doesn't matter, this is a very hard book to use., The breaks between the awards are NOT clear and a numbering system has been applied that totally defies rational logic. It seems to have NOTHING top do with award numbering.

And the photos shown are sub-newsprint quaity -- but they ARE photos?!?!

OK, OK, calm down . . . this is MONGOLIA after all.

I still struggle and await wise guidance from cold UB. Comrade Choibalsan told us to struggle and seek guidance . . . right . . . ????

The Sky Blue Bible??????????????????

My vote -- which is worth NOTHING -- is that he WON.

Yes, Ralph. A lot of cross-correlation to do. And just for a uniform . . . .

Thanks.

Anyway, nice 'um (though a shame about the collar badges, but no tears).

The Collar Badges are Post 1947 pre 1954.

Ralph

Suspected -- feared -- as much Ralph. Thanks. Doesn't matter a lot . . . .

Just in from UB (thanks to A Friend of Us All). Do we hear the rumble of a (another) revolution starting up?

Soft-cover, 734 pages, 21 x 29.2 cm, no ISBN (does this shock anyone?!)

Detailed posts to follow on other threads.

A nice one, for sure!