Ed_Haynes

I do not do this often. Ever. I am -- LITERALLY -- sitting here with my mouth open . . .

And "only" $175K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess that wasn't even an effort to answer the question, was it? Gentlemen???

But, before we get drawn down into these often-snarly arcane issues . . . what about Megan's question? (Something I'd also like to clarify and see clarified.) How about a basic typology (binomial key?) of the MVO, please?

While an argument might be made that this has run its course and that warning flags have been adequately raised, I see no reason to close off this discussion. Yet.

The trade in Mongolian awards is so new, so immature, and in so much flux that maintaining absolutely ethical business practices is vitally important. If we, as a small community of collectors, are to remain friends, we need to be absolutely honest in all our dealings. Language issues can surely get in the way, but we need to be certain that nothing less worthy is going on.

Selling things you do not personally own is near the top of the list of bad business practices. Trying to sell a group that is in the collection of another collector on the forum (which was posted on the forum and which also happens to be right here on the desk in front of me even as I type) is not a clean business practice.

Wearing my "moderator hat" (as well as my "collector hat"), I shall be monitoring this thread closely.

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This is the best that Google can do and is probably quite funny.

而一个论点可能提出的，这已开办课程，并把警示旗已有所提出的，我看不出有什么理由，以关闭这一讨论。然而。

业内人士在蒙古奖是个很新的，所以不成熟，在这么多流量，保持绝对道德商业行为是相当重要的。如果我们作为一个小社会的收藏者，要保持朋友，我们必须绝对诚实，在我们的所有交易的情况。语言问题，就一定能够找到路，但我们必须予以肯定的是，不啻值得回事。

卖东西，你不亲自本身是靠近顶部的名单上的不良经营手法。试图出售一组是在收集另一收藏家对论坛（这是张贴在论坛上，这也恰恰是这里，就在书桌前的我，甚至在我型） ，是不是一个廉洁的营商惯例。

穿着我的"主持人帽子" （以及我的"收藏家帽子" ） ，我会在这个监测线程密切。

I know well, from my own experience, that translation is not an exact science. But neither is it a full-contact competitive sport. All I am interested in is getting an accurate understanding of what this guy did to get his medal. I am not overly interested in watching folks "count linguistic coup".

Thanks to all for interest, guidance, and the various translations.

Wow! What a fascinating exercise in phaleristic archaeology!!

Such unethical practices are quite disturbing. Thanks for the warning, Bob.

I agree with all your comments.

I would hope to see a response from "reichsrommel" and "usairforce".

I note that another two Hungarian Flag orders I have seen out there in cyberspace are (1) to an Iranian Air force general who scampered to France during the troubles of 1979 and lived to tell the tale and have a memorial put up to him on a web site (including his medals and documents) and its on a CV of a Cuban retired officer who now teaches Latin American lit. at some Italian University. Perhaps this was the favorite award for foreign comrades?

Fascinating . . .

See:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...t=&similar=

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...t=&similar=

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...t=&similar=

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...ilar=''

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...t=&similar=

And, most importantly, see:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivi...p?id_nbr=172425

The Canadians do it RIGHT!

And the Canadian Types would be VERY excited by this!!

Yep - its done....and sucessfuly too!

Thanks -- I know, TRUST ME, how cranky that process can be. Technology IS evil!!

Well done, everyone!

Despite the absence of a good, English-language reference book, a great deal of information has been brought together here. We just need - to catch up with Mongolia and Albania -- THAT BOOK?!

And I think we may be close?? Please????

I refuse to see it as a contest -- that's be too competitive, right? -- but we do need to recognise when we have done well!

Interesting. I guess.

But could we -- please -- split the helments off from the badge discussion?

?????

Not very good, but see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_streamer

Also (much better): http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Campaign...rs/Campaign.htm

Argh!!!!!

Cry of frustration-

Still, fruitful inquiry might be made in financial records-where lists and purchase orders for badges, as well as receipts are sometimes (often, actually) kept as proof of something of value disbursed. Most governments don't give a toss about financial records and I have found it a (boring) but sometimes fruitful back door to information.

Very true! Every government keeps records of how it spends money. A very tedious quest, but many interesting things can reside there!

While I, too, am dissapointed by the nature of Godo's response, I am not surprised. As a card-carrying professional historian, I know all too well the challenges of mixing "hobby" and "profession", the problems of making what we do comprehensible and legitimate to real historians. Is is too easy, sometimes, for them to dismiss us as "button collectors" and sometimes our assertions that we are historians help them dismiss us, sounding to professional historians the same way that someone specialising in crystal pyramid "healing" would come across to a brain surgeon.

In part, it is a matter of marketing. Let me help you draft your script, Charles, before you make your next effort. I have some stock phrases that have helped me bridge the worlds.

The problems of privacy laws may he hard to get around. Most countries have introduced recent laws along these lines, mostly well intentioned but usually clumsily drafted pieces of legislation. I suspect that things are even more tricky in situations where there has been a recent major sea-change in ideology and government. The opportunities for revenge make such protections even more important.

There's some confusion here. This isn't a Japanese award, but a medal of Manchuguo. It is The Border Incident War Medal, awarded to Manchuguo troops (and, presumably, also to their Japanese allies). According to the 3rd edition of Peterson's book (not perfect, but the best we have), p. 150:

In July, 1937, a gunboat battle took place on the Amur River. In July, 1938 the Russians occupied Changkufeng Hill near the border and an intensive war was waged for ten days, August 14th-24th, resulting in a Soviet victory. A major war broke out May 11, 1939, along the Mongolian-Siberian border at Nomonhan, and Japanese casualties were 18,000.

Due to the non-survival of many of the relevant records and limited language skills by most interested in these things, we don't know much more. As has been mentioned, there are two varieties, "large dove" and "small dove". When you see comparative side-by-side pictures (as in Peterson on on this site), the differences are clear; when you don't see then together, the distinctions can be pretty vague.

The Japanese medal for these conflicts is the generic China Incident War Medal (Peterson, p. 50), awarded for the China War, 1937-45.

Neither was specifically for Khalkin Gol (the way the Mongolian badge and, later, medal was), but both these medals covered these operations from the other side.

I don't think Manchuguo troops were involved in the Lake Khasan business. But I could be wrong.

If a good source from the Japanese side on these operations exists, it is probably in Japanese and of no help to me. Sorry.

. . . just barely above soviet medals in quality.

Yes, very strange. Soviet medals are generally of quite high quality.

Wow!!

Thanks!

Yes, very nice. Thank you!

Nice documents and photos. Thanks!

Hardy:

Gratuitous Gong Shot.

Regards;

Johnsy

Lovely photo, thanks, Johnsy!

If that were the case, Hardy, I'd have absolutely no problem with that. I know the feeling, all too well. Trust me. :cheers"

It is just that sometimes, I fear, that simple fact gets forgotten among the "Third Reich" crowd.

Looks to me almost like someone who saw himself as a Soviet with some Hungarian medals?