Ed_Haynes

But remember, the reverse has "number II and high s/n 37062"???

What would people think about such a tunic if it turned up, these days?

We all know: The "Experts" would dismiss it out of hand as a fake (unless they happened to own one just like it).

There was some hope that Mongolian Archives research was going to be available this year-- that on the back burner, hope for 2008?

It is merely a matter of the man who will do -- or at least launch -- the research getting time from a demanding job, a demanding (but lovely) young daughter, etc. All those tricky Life Issues.

There's still hope for 2007 . . . I hope . . . .

Welcome back! Yeah, things are more than a little quiet!

Maybe some change soon . . . .

Add to this the fact that they have been made by a range of independent jewelers, in all the marvelous diversity of sizes and designs that their commercially driven little brains could devise. A lifetime's study and, as 'Veteran' says, at least one lifetime's collecting agenda.

Until I stopped adding to it from the M&E sales, we were assembling a nice set of images over at the OMSA database.

This isn't the US. Here, we can wear what we want to wear if we aren't government employees (postmen, State Department, military, etc.).

In the UK, any "Crown Subject" needs permission from Her Nibs to wear Anything not given by Her. No one in power has taken on all the fraudulent "commemorative" medals, but they ought to.

Thanks, Hendrik! Very often, when it seems "too good to be true" it is because it is (too good), and isn't (true).

The clouds of doubt gather . . . .

Actually, thinking about this, maybe the medal is intended (sensibly enough) to reward service commencing from the date when Malaysia became independent from British imperial domination. A rather logical dividing line, isn't it??

(And shouldn't this thread be moved to South-East Asia, where it rightfully belongs?)

Interesting numbers, Graham. Thanks. Who is counted here? British (however defined) or total? To what degree is Malay participation factored in?

In other words: What is the source?

Nice one, Christian. Thanks for posting this. Interesting how war-time "allied" understanding can be preverted.

What hacks me off about the award of this medal is that no-one who served in Malaya prior to 1957 is entitled to it, when funnily enough thats when the bulk of the fighting was done. Not that it would bother him, as he died seven years ago, but my old man was out there with the Grenadier Guards during the Emergency from September 1948 to August 1949 and although he does have the G.S.M. with the 'Malaya' clasp, it would have been a nice gesture if the Malayan Government had extended it's issue to all Malaya veterans.

Graham.

HMG doesn't make the rules. The independent government of Malaysia does. Maybe, for some, that may be one of the problems in accepting awards from "foreigners" (sniff, snarl)?

"[T]he bulk of the fighting was done" -- by whom?? Maybe, just maybe, the independent Malaysian government made the rules the way they wanted them.

Until very recently, it has been British policy that you got one clasp or medal for a campaign, period. (Unless, of course, it was something like WWII.) This especially applied as far as foreign awards were concerned, where general campaign permissions have almost never been extended. (You got one from your monarch, that's enough.) While this policy has been sloppily applied, it still informs the policy.

Additionally, it has been policy not to go back and review long-past campaigns to add new awards just because the veterans think they deserve more more medals (and more medals) and whine to get them. (The retrospective 19th century awards -- MGS, NGS, AoI -- are in no way a reasonable parallel case.) The "Canal Zone" business was a major (and, some may argue, very unfortunate) lapse in this long-established policy

An interesting group, and interesting thread. Sorry that it has been marred by a strange and ungentlemanly outburst.

Good points, Rick. This seems to suggest that there were quotas by front, by army, or whatever. ("Everyone gets 'x' Nevskys this half-year per 'y' eligible folks deployed." -- other armies did it pretty much the same way in WWII.) If you had a lot to do you'd get a lesser award than the same deed would receive in an area where there wasn't much happening and there were "spare" awards to distribute.

Lovely. Thanks.

A true shame that research on these is so difficult (impossible?).

Oh, a really nice one, Jim! Thanks for sharing it.

Let me see if I can find anything to add.

With some more effort, I might be able to do better, but there isn't much to work with here.

No games intended, least of all from the likes of me. Really...

Mr. Vorovov does not read or write in English, so I assumed that I would simply show the images and translated text to him. They would not be posted publicly, so a watermark would not be necessary in any case.

Nevermind Ed...

Richie,

PM sent. It is just that I have seen some very nasty, snarly, ungentlemanly games played over such issues, and on THIS very forum.

Ed

Ed, one additional question concering the gymnasterka. The buttons seem to be the 18MM type, which does not present any type of question as they were used in great numbers along with many other types and combinations of. Perhaps it is my bad eyesight, or my monitor is distorting colors; Are they painted green or feldgrau?

Thanks for the help here, by the way, Richie; I seek to learn.

The buttons are (all) 18 mm, olive green in color. (The grey seems to be a photography/lighting artifact.)

I can find no maker's mark on the reverse of the boards, but I am not 100% sure I know where to look (and want to do nothing that disturbs them).

There is a stamp inside the gymnasterka, which I shall attempt to scan and enhance.

Please direct him to this forum rather than "lift" the photos. I am not interested in adding obscuring watermarks.

I am fully aware that by showing this uniform (and the others), I am opening myself to involvement in the various games that seem to infest this field. The forum has already "enjoyed" some of this.

As I recall, the three-legged crow (I somehow thought it was supposed to be red?) was the helpful birdie (kami?) who guided the first emperor Jimmu's army through troublesome terrain at some significant moment that I can't remember just now. (Also on the China Incident War Medal.)

It has three legs here because it had three legs.

Oops -- see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-legged_bird

The Yatagarasu (八咫烏), and a raven not a crow. And he helped Jimmu reach Yamato.

Closeup on the deocration-hole region above the left pocket. Interestingly, this photo shows more detail than I can discern with the naked eye. The reverse shows a full-size screwplate for the first, but a smaller one for the second.

I am evolvoing a theory but want more expert opinions, please.

And . . . oh . . . yes . . . the shoulder boards.

Single left-chest screwback decoration. What??

Uniform.