Ed_Haynes

Thanks very much, Sergey! Very interesting!!

This touches, I think, on a point that has confused me for some time. OK, I may confuse easily. But:

-- Given group "G" with awards "A, B, C, D".

-- It is possible to say that these awards were given to individual "X".

-- Cannot individuals "Y" or "Z" also have been given these awards? Would research reveal the non-unique entitlement seen in group "G?

-- How can one say that group "G" belongs to individual "X" and not to the (unknown?) others?

As I distantly recall from Logic 101, this situation had a name.

A parallel case: Seeing an unnamed British WWII trio of MC, 1939-45 Star, and War Medal gives a group that may have been awarded to Capt. "M". But also to "N", "O", "P", "Q", and a host of others? On what basis can one assert it is "M"'s??

Tell me what I am missing by being so confused?

Thanks for this, Chuck. I had been wondering. Now I wonder no more.

Mine is "in the UPS". Thanks again.

Very fascinating! Always interesting to see how there crossover groups were dealt with (or not). What violence had to be done to his Egypt Medal!

Thanks for a great thread!

Many thanks for this. Unless we understand the world in which these people lived (including the silly rules that governed their lives), we can't fully appreciate and decipher the meaning of these chunks of metal and ribbon.

The official UN site -- http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/medals/ -- says "The wording shown may be in English, French, Spanish, Danish, Greek, Italian, Dutch, Swedish, Sanskrit or Turkish." This seems to be more a statement of the original intent than a reflection of what actually happened. For example, the medal in Hindi (what the site calls Sanskrit) was never issued, as Indian troops were not allowed to receive it; likewise, the medal in Amharic isn't mentioned.

Someone needs to get into the UN records on this one. But, then, they may not have known what the various individual States did or didn't do.

So true. It does say "Senior Inspector of the Militarized Security at the Flax Factory". Security guard? Night watchman?

As always, questions, comments, observations are welcomed. Thanks.

Actually, his service might be clearer as

And the translation:

SERVICE RECORD

Personal Number E ? 640143

1. Last name, name, patronymic Shchukin Boris Ivanovich

2. Day, month and year of birth 18 April 1922

3. Place of birth (by the current administrative division) Village Red?kino, Rzhevsk District, Kalinin Region

4. Nationality Russian

5. Party membership

Member of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union since 1945

6. Education

General 7 classes in 1937, 3 courses in the Zoological Technical Institute in 1940

Military Tambov Aviation School for pilots in 1944

7. Which foreign languages and USSR national languages spoken Does not speak

8. Assigned military rank Whose order Order number Order

Date

Junior Lieutenant Military Air Force 0401 21.9.44

Lieutenant 3rd Air Army 0392 21.5.45

Senior Lieutenant Military Air Force High Command 0504 28.2.49

Captain Order of the Military Commisariat 43 7.5.75

9. Participation at the fronts in partisan detachments 11.1944-5.1945

10. Marital status Wife: Shchukin Lidiya Vasil?evna 1924. Daughter: Natalia - 1949, Son: Alexander - 1953

11. When and by what Military Commissariat was drafted in the Armed Forces 11.06.1941 voluntarily through Rzhevsk District Military Commissariat, Kalinin Region

12. Active military service in the Soviet Army, Navy and troops of the MVD, KGB

Position, unit, establishment, institution, formation, army, group of forces, front or district, fleet or flotilla Whose order Order number Day, month and year

Cadet. Tambov Aviation School for Pilots 11.06.1941

Pilot for the Reserve Crew. 43rd Reserves Regiment Military Air Forces 0401 21.9.1944

Pilot. 766th Assault Aviation Regiment, 211th Assault Aviation division, 3rd Air Force Army, 1st Baltic and 3rd Belorussian Front By order 211th of the Assault Aviation Division № 017/P.D. of 26.2.45 26.11.1944

Senior Pilot. 766th Assault Aviation Regiment, 211th Assault Aviation Division, 3rd Air Force Army By order 211th of the Assault Aviation Division № 099/P.D. of 3.7.45 26.3.1945

Pilot. 6th Guards Assault Aviation Regiment, 211th Assault Aviation Division, 15th Air Force Army 15th Air Army 036/P.D. 29.3.1947

Senior Pilot. 6th Guards Assault Aviation Regiment, 339th Assault Aviation Division, 30th Air Force Army 30th Air Army 0641/P.D. 7.04.1950

Dismissed in the Reserves by Article 43. Point ?A? Military Air Force High Command 02957 19.09.1950

Zhytomir Municipal Military Commissariat

Colonel (signed) (Mikhalov)

Chief of the 3rd Department

Major (signed) (Shatilov)

SPECIALIZATION RECORD

13. Last name, name, patronymic Shchukin Boris Ivanovich

14. Designation

15. Part of the rosters in Zhytomir Municipal Military Commissariat

16. Military rank Senior Lieutenant

17. Staff Commander

18. Type of Forces

19. № Military Record Specialization 95

20. Discharged in the Reserves ?3?

21. Health Condition Cannot serve in the time of peace, limited service of 2nd category in the war time

22. Control dates

23. Place of work and position Senior Inspector of the Militarized Security at the Flax Factory

24. Home address Zhytomir City, First of May Street, 33

25. Military card series AN № 31116 issued on 8 January 1951

26. Other notes

And.

And.

And I also got his service record. It has some of the strangest handwriting I have seen in a long time.

And, alas, there is no photo.

Translation:

CERTIFICATE

In Regards of the Awarding Material of the Senior Pilot of the 766th ?Assault? Red Banner Aviation Regiment, Junior Lieutenant Shchukin Boris Ivanovich.

Comrade Shchukin V. I. completed 22 successful combat missions of ground attack and bombing of the enemy troops and machines in the regions of: Medenau, Germau, Fishkhauzen, Pillau in the period between 25.3.45 and 25.4.1945.

The success of these military missions is confirmed by the members of the crews that were flying at the same time:

1) Commander of Aviation Escadrille, Hero of the Soviet Union, Senior Lieutenant PANOV

2) Vice Commander of Aviation Escadrille, Junior Lieutenant KONYUKHOV

3) Commander of Communication, Junior Lieutenant ZAMALETDINOV

I certify the signatures of the crew members who confirmed the success of the operations:

Commander of the 766th ?Assault? Red Banner Aviation Regiment

Major (signed) /Petrov/

? April 1945

And the routine certification

Translation:

AWARD LIST

1. Last Name, name and patronymic Shchukin Boris Ivanovich

2. Rank Junior Lieutenant

3. Position, unit Senior Pilot, 766th ?Assault? Red Banner Aviation Regiment

Is recommended for the Order of the ?PATRIOTIC WAR? First Class

4. Year of birth 1922

5. Nationality Russian

6. Party membership Candidate Member of the BKP(b) (All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks)) since 1944.

7. Participation in the civil war and other military actions aimed at the defense of the USSR (where and when) Participant of the Patriotic War since 11.9.44

8. Wounds or contusions received during the Patriotic War Doesn?t have

9. In the Red Army since Since 1941

10. Drafted by what district military commissariat Rzhevsk District Military Commissariat, Kalinin Region

11. Previous awards Order of the ?Red Banner? in 1945

12. Permanent home address (of the prospective awardee or his/her family) Kalinin Region, Rzhevsk District, Village Red?kino

I. Brief description of personal feat or merits

From 20.2 till 24.3.45 he completed 15 successful combat missions, and for this by the order of the 3rd Air Army № 0175 of 5.4.1945 he was awarded the order of the ?Red Banner?.

From 25.3 till 25.4.45 he completed another 22 successful combat missions of ground attack and bombing of enemy troops and machines in the regions: Medenau, Germau, Fishkhauzen, Pillau.

Comrade Shchukin is mastering his combat skills and his ?Assault? strikes cause the enemy great losses. During combat missions he flies with great will and completes the assignment under any conditions.

On 6.4.45 a group of Il-2 under poor weather conditions has accomplished a mission to ?Assault? an Artillery Mortar Battery. The enemy responded to the group?s arrival with a strong antiaircraft fire. With skillful maneuvering the group penetrated the target and destroyed it, but when it was retreating from the attack, Comrade Shchukin?s plane was damaged with a direct hit by a shell that entered directly into the plane. In the second approach the leading group fell into a zone of strong fire. Comrade Shchukin attacked the antiaircraft position and left it silent by shooting the gunners of three weapons.

On 22.4.45, while accomplishing a mission in the region of Pillau, Comrade Shchukin noticed some Costal Artillery and after pointing to the group the target, he covered it with bombs and shot the gunners with machine gun fire.

He loves airmanship. He is disciplined and demanding to himself and his subordinates. He was promoted to Senior Pilot as the best pilot. He is devoted to the affairs of the Lenin-Stalin Party and to the socialist homeland.

For outstanding fulfillments in the commanded combat missions in the fight against German Fascists invaders and manifestation of his valor, bravery and courage and for the successful combat missions, he deserves the awarding of the order of the ?PATRIOTIC WAR? first class.

Commander of the 766th ?Assault? Red Banner Aviation Regiment

Major: (Signature) / Petrov /

28 March 1945

Deserves the government awards order of the PATRIOTIC WAR FIRST CLASS

Commander of the 211st ?Assault? Nevel? Twice Red Banner, Order of Suvorov Aviation Division

Colonel: (Signature) / Kuchma /

30 April 1945

Chain of command.

And.

Just to complete the story, here is the recommendation for his missing OPW.

Well . . . I was expecting a post . . . fully worthy of the WAF . . . about "fake women" and "fake virgins" . . . can you imagine my disappointment?

My understanding is that it is an Afghan (not US) medal, intended for award to foreigners who served there. The US never allowed their troops to accept it, so it is pretty much of an orphan.

Quality suffers then?

Of course. Tends to happen everywhere, doesn't it?

Interestingly the one you posted seems to have a higher level of detail which I would expect from a British mint, presumably it's not been dunked in battery acid?!, even calcutta produced

The Calcutta Mint did (and still does) first-rate work. Unfortunately, most current medals are made by private contractors .

Setting aside the whole issue of later tailors' copies, here is a Pacific Star made up by one of the prominent New Delhi coin dealers (not so much into medals). Was this for veterans or for collectors? Who can say.

Here is a Calcutta strike Burma Star, officially named to "53441 JEMDR. PUSHA RAM, I.P.C."